Fedora 25 released
The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the immediate availability of Fedora 25, the next big step our journey into the containerized, modular future!" See the announcement and the release notes for details on the many changes in this release.
| From: | Matthew Miller <mattdm-AT-fedoraproject.org> | |
| To: | announce-AT-lists.fedoraproject.org | |
| Subject: | Fedora 25 released! | |
| Date: | Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:45:08 -0500 | |
| Message-ID: | <20161122134508.GA1060@mattdm.org> |
Fedora 25 released! =================== The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the immediate availability of Fedora 25, the next big step our journey into the containerized, modular future! Fedora is a global community that works together to lead the advancement of free and open source software. As part of the community’s mission the project delivers three editions, each one a free, Linux-based operating system tailored to meet specific use cases: Fedora 25 Atomic Host, Fedora 25 Server, and Fedora 25 Workstation. Each edition is built from a common set of base packages, which form the foundation of the Fedora operating system. As with all new versions of Fedora, Fedora 25 provides many bug fixes and tweaks to these underlying components, as well as new and enhanced packages, including: * Docker 1.12 for building and running containerized applications * Node.js 6.5, the latest version of the popular server-side JavaScript engine * Support for Rust, a faster and more stable system programming language * Multiple Python versions — 2.6, 2.7, 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5 — to help run test suites across several Python configurations, as well as PyPy, PyPy3, and Jython Fedora Workstation ------------------ Providing many of the latest open source developer and desktop tools, Fedora 25 Workstation delivers a host of new features, including the long-awaited official debut of the Wayland display server. Replacing the legacy X11 system, Wayland has been under development for several years and seeks to provide a smoother, richer experience for graphical environments and better capabilities for modern graphics hardware. To further enhance ease-of-use, Fedora 25 Workstation also features GNOME 3.22, which offers multiple file renaming, a redesigned keyboard settings tool and additional user interface improvements. Workstation users will also be pleased with the inclusion of decoding support for the MP3 media format. Fedora 25 Workstation now makes it easier to for Windows and OS X users to get started, with Fedora Media Writer serving as the default download for those operating systems. This tool helps users find and download the current Fedora release and write it to removable media, like a USB stick, allowing potential Fedora users to “test drive” the operating system from that media environment. Fedora can then be installed to their systems with the same process. For current Fedora users, the upgrade path from Fedora 24 to Fedora 25 has been simplified and streamlined, with typical upgrades taking less than 30 minutes, depending on system configuration and network speed. Upgrades can be started from the command line or from the GNOME Software tool, just like regular security and bugfix updates. For developers, beyond the new docker engine and language support included in the base Fedora 25 packages, Fedora 25 Workstation introduces improved Flatpak support. This tweak makes it easier to install, update and remove Flatpak software and enables this application packaging standard to be more user friendly at the workstation level. GNOME Shell extensions are also no longer checked for compatibility with the current version of the Shell. This was originally required because the GNOME interfaces were changing rapidly during the early days of GNOME 3. Now these interfaces have stabilized, and extensions can generally be expected to work with new releases. Fedora Server ------------- In addition to the flexible multi-role functionality provided by rolekit, Fedora 25 Server now delivers a new SELinux Troubleshooter module for Cockpit. Similar to what is available on Fedora Workstation, the module helps provide suggestions for a user when an SELinux denial is encountered, which otherwise requires log checking and manual workarounds. Fedora 25 Server also will now display SSH keys in the Cockpit system dashboard to make it easier for administrators to see what keys are connecting to a given machine. Additionally, support is now included for multi-step (including two-factor) authentication services. The FreeIPA identity management system has also been upgraded to 4.4 series, which offers a set of new features for servers deployed in an identity management role. Some of these enhancements include: * Topology management: FreeIPA web UI can now be used to visually manage topology graph for large deployments. * DNS sites: DNS management in FreeIPA now supports location-specific placement of services. * Subordinate Certificate Authorities: FreeIPA Certificate Authority now is able to create subordinate CAs to issue certificates with a specific scope. * Kerberos Authentication Indicators: Kerberos KDC now takes Authentication Indicators into account when issuing service tickets. For example, two-factor authenticated Kerberos credentials can now be required prior to obtaining tickets to a VPN service (supported by OpenConnect Server). Fedora Atomic ------------- New in Fedora 25 is the addition of Fedora 25 Atomic Host as one of Fedora’s three editions, replacing Fedora Cloud. While a Fedora Cloud Base image will continue to be available for users seeking to run workloads on a general purpose host, Fedora Atomic Host provides an optimized host designed to create and deploy container-based workloads. Fedora 25 Atomic Host is shipped in several formats, to allow users to spin up virtual machines or install Atomic Host on bare metal. To keep pace with innovations in the world of Linux containers, Fedora Atomic Host is expected to be refreshed on a two-week release cycle (with major releases coinciding with new Fedora versions) and provides an easy upgrade path to accommodate rapid application development. Fedora will also offer a docker-formatted base image, to be updated monthly along with critical security updates, for use in building Linux containers. Spins and More -------------- These are not the only parts of Fedora that are seeing changes in the release today. Our KDE spin features new and improved packages for music, video, and personal information management. Xfce includes improvements to the terminal, notifications, and power management. Mate-Compiz features an update to Mate 1.16 and a complete switch to the GTK+3 toolkit. Downloads --------- You can download the new Fedora 25 starting today! Download Fedora 25 from our Get Fedora site: * Workstation: https://getfedora.org/workstation/ * Server: https://getfedora.org/server/ * Atomic: https://getfedora.org/atomic/ Or, check out one of our popular variants: * Spins: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ * Labs: https://labs.fedoraproject.org/ Architectures ------------- As always, Fedora is available for 32-bit ARM and 64-bit Intel architecture systems, and select Spins are also available for 32-bit x86. We're also simultaneously releasing for 64-bit ARM, Power (including a little endian variant), and s390x. For these, see: * https://alt.fedoraproject.org/alt/ Of particular note to many enthusiasts, this is the first release where we officially run on the Raspberry Pi (versions 2 and 3). More details are available in this Fedora Magazine Article: * https://fedoramagazine.org/raspberry-pi-support-fedora-25... Upgrades -------- If you're already running Fedora, you don't need to download or create a boot image. Instead, start the upgrade process from GNOME Software or using DNF System Upgrade at the command line. For instructions, refer * Upgrades: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading Documentation and Common Bugs ----------------------------- Read the full release notes for Fedora 25: * https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/25/html/Relea... Fedora 25 common bugs are documented at: * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F25_bugs Thank You! ---------- Fedora would not be possible without the hard work of the very dedicated contributor community. Thanks to the thousands of Fedora contributors and millions of upstream developers who made this release! -- Matthew Miller, Fedora Project Leader -- Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ announce mailing list -- announce@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to announce-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Posted Nov 22, 2016 18:55 UTC (Tue)
by adam820 (subscriber, #101353)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Nov 22, 2016 22:20 UTC (Tue)
by kjp (guest, #39639)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Nov 22, 2016 22:49 UTC (Tue)
by amacater (subscriber, #790)
[Link] (7 responses)
Hybrid .iso files - dd the CD image to a USB stick, boot from stick. Debian netinstall for AMD64 is less than 300M so you can use the oldest stick you can find :)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 1:22 UTC (Wed)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 3:56 UTC (Wed)
by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 3:59 UTC (Wed)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link]
http://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/04/26/fedora-media...
Posted Nov 23, 2016 20:51 UTC (Wed)
by kjp (guest, #39639)
[Link] (3 responses)
I recall being able to do that with the win10 install media, despite it not being documented ANYWHERE on microsoft's horrible site. (You'd think if it was easy to do they would trumpet that fact and help people out).
Basically it's nice that redhat has a tool now (it's horrible using dd on mac, I think we all agree). But, it might be even nicer if simply dragging a dir to a filesystem could give something bootable.
Posted Nov 23, 2016 21:03 UTC (Wed)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Nov 27, 2016 21:15 UTC (Sun)
by kjp (guest, #39639)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Dec 5, 2016 4:17 UTC (Mon)
by voltagex (guest, #86296)
[Link]
Posted Nov 22, 2016 22:31 UTC (Tue)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (18 responses)
Firefox works fine though. Hurrah!
Posted Nov 23, 2016 1:11 UTC (Wed)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (17 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 1:31 UTC (Wed)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (16 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 1:36 UTC (Wed)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (15 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 16:02 UTC (Wed)
by madscientist (subscriber, #16861)
[Link] (14 responses)
Posted Nov 24, 2016 22:26 UTC (Thu)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (13 responses)
Posted Nov 24, 2016 23:38 UTC (Thu)
by zlynx (guest, #2285)
[Link] (12 responses)
As far as I can tell, the main users of Wayland are also using systemd, which makes it easy to launch executables without using a shell. Since there was no need to go through the shell to start Wayland, it didn't happen.
The fact that X11 startup uses a lot of shell is a historical accident.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 0:53 UTC (Fri)
by madscientist (subscriber, #16861)
[Link] (10 responses)
I'm pretty confident that people involved with X development would consider the fact that the X session sources the user's environment so it's available to applications started from the desktop to be a feature, not a historical accident.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 8:04 UTC (Fri)
by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
[Link] (1 responses)
Wayland does not prescribe the startup mechanisms, so it is up to each Wayland implementor to specify the files it reads (if any). Personally, I converted to a systemd user session long ago and don't care about such file readings at all anymore.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 15:43 UTC (Fri)
by Jonno (subscriber, #49613)
[Link]
Posted Nov 25, 2016 9:03 UTC (Fri)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (7 responses)
Posted Nov 25, 2016 13:16 UTC (Fri)
by johannbg (guest, #65743)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted Nov 25, 2016 14:16 UTC (Fri)
by madscientist (subscriber, #16861)
[Link] (5 responses)
When was the bug found and filed... oh yes, over two years ago.
That's when blame starts to set in.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 18:14 UTC (Fri)
by johannbg (guest, #65743)
[Link] (4 responses)
Volunteer driven community of anykind are not ethically bound to provide anything to anyone else other than their own community hence in an community created, maintained software you only have two options a) wait until someone takes his or her free time and fixes the bug in question or b) become part of said community and fix it yourself and push it ( or not ) upstream.
Then upstream ( or distribution who act as upstream for end users ) might even decided not to simply support something anymore and provide no migration or alternative to it's target users base.
The above might not be what end users like to hear but that's the reality as it is.
When it comes down to distribution the only one you can "blame" in that regard is the relevant working group that pushed half implemented solutions both upstream wize and distro wide upon it's target users base ( not upstream ) which more often than not the case with Fedora since it's sole existence is to be a beta testing and early adoption platform for Red Hat products and the community comes and is treated as second class citizen in that distribution so contributors are better of contributing their free time to something like Mageia or Debian or directly upstream which they get better value in return for their contributed time rather than partake in corporate dictated distributions.
This whole session thing is a mess in which everyone knows the proper solution requires someone to step up and replace pam with something better written for this century needs or release pam v.2 but nobody is willing to step up to do that work but instead everyone ( read as the Gnome community ) seems to be willing to try to stuff broken workarounds in various upstream. systemd, util-linux you name it whomever is dumb enough to accept an workaround for them ( which last time I knew Karel reluctantly agreed to do in util-linux if he was provided a patch which may not work on shared system with different distributions on different releases of at least util-linux )...
Posted Nov 25, 2016 19:27 UTC (Fri)
by madscientist (subscriber, #16861)
[Link] (1 responses)
I am so tired of this ridiculous trope that no one is justified in pointing out any issue unless they're going to fix it themselves. It's hogwash.
And blaming this particular problem on pam, systemd, or who knows what other infrastructure is also hogwash. The "proper solution" to this problem is not "rewrite pam", for heaven's sake! The answer is very simple: reintroduce the current behavior of X, and have the user's graphical login session started from a login shell. That change could be made in a few lines of code, max and does not require rewriting or replacing security infrastructure.
So far no one has given any serious reason why this straightforward, sane solution is not acceptable.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 20:20 UTC (Fri)
by johannbg (guest, #65743)
[Link]
Anyway wayland sessions aren't run through a login shell hence you cannot run through a stack of shell scripts at login and the reason people are talking about pam v.2. or systemd is because pam systemd is what's has been used in trying to solve this but that has it's own set of problems ( and also makes the solution depended both on pam and systemd ) .
All of this cannot be *properly* fixed unless people rethink and implement environment handling from scratch.
Why distributions decided to push wayland and desktop environments using wayland on to it's end users base when this has not been properly addressed is something the distribution doing so will have to answer for but for whatever reason the distribution doing so seem to have come to the conclusion that, that combo is ready for general consumption.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 21:57 UTC (Fri)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (1 responses)
FWIW although I haven't contributed code to gnome-session, I have made enormous contributions to Firefox and thus the Linux desktop. I think that makes me part of "the community", although of course that term is vague and you could choose to draw the community boundary around GNOME proper, or gnome-session, or in the limit the particular lines of code at fault here.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 22:45 UTC (Fri)
by johannbg (guest, #65743)
[Link]
With regards to the community then from my perspective that made you part of the firefox community and the broader linux or opensource ecosystem in whole so we most definitely are putting different meaning to it.
Posted Nov 25, 2016 1:35 UTC (Fri)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link]
Posted Nov 23, 2016 2:48 UTC (Wed)
by bigbenaugust (guest, #98108)
[Link] (16 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 3:20 UTC (Wed)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (15 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 5:22 UTC (Wed)
by nevyn (guest, #33129)
[Link] (14 responses)
Posted Nov 23, 2016 9:47 UTC (Wed)
by lkundrak (subscriber, #43452)
[Link]
Posted Nov 23, 2016 15:24 UTC (Wed)
by tjc (guest, #137)
[Link] (12 responses)
I find it somewhat amusing that Wayland, having been promoted by some as the greatest thing since sliced bread, is so similar in operation to X that one has to run ps to see if it's running.
Posted Nov 23, 2016 15:45 UTC (Wed)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link]
It has taken years of work and XWayland as a compatibility layer to make it feasible for users to not affected by the differences much. Try running sudo <graphical program> or a screen capturing tool if you want to know what breaks.
Posted Nov 23, 2016 16:56 UTC (Wed)
by jtaylor (subscriber, #91739)
[Link]
Posted Nov 27, 2016 11:11 UTC (Sun)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link] (8 responses)
Wayland is basically X dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century - the original design unfortunately is full of what today are mis-features, that cannot be fixed without a total redesign, so that's what the Wayland guys did :-)
Cheers,
Posted Nov 27, 2016 22:40 UTC (Sun)
by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698)
[Link]
The future will be more interconnected and network-oriented, not less. Network transparency makes things easier for users and can't be considered an 'optional extra'.
Posted Nov 28, 2016 16:15 UTC (Mon)
by renox (guest, #23785)
[Link] (6 responses)
Really?
Posted Nov 28, 2016 22:45 UTC (Mon)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link] (5 responses)
That's what currently happens in the real world for any modern X11 application. I imagine it works fine over a high end wired network, but with my lowly 135Mbps wifi I get the full “webpages loading over dialup in 1996” experience.
It's probably a good thing Wayland isn't trying to copy that.
Posted Nov 29, 2016 12:21 UTC (Tue)
by renox (guest, #23785)
[Link] (4 responses)
As for network transparency you complain about its slowness on X1 but slowness is better than nothing: by default on X11 you have slow network transparency, by default on Wayland you have no network transparency.
Posted Nov 29, 2016 13:57 UTC (Tue)
by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106)
[Link] (2 responses)
By default on Wayland you have XWayland, which has exactly as much network transparency as X11. Remote apps see no difference, while local apps get to take advantage of the lower-overhead Wayland protocol.
Posted Nov 30, 2016 10:31 UTC (Wed)
by renox (guest, #23785)
[Link] (1 responses)
Oh really? So you can use XWayland on your Jolla phone? ;-)
Hint: XWayland is an option, definitively NOT a "default"..
Posted Nov 30, 2016 15:19 UTC (Wed)
by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106)
[Link]
Technically, yes:
https://build.merproject.org/project/show/home:javispedro...
The port is incomplete (no input redirection) and doesn't appear to have been updated in some time, but there is no technical reason why it wouldn't work. The point is that remoting is something you can add on top of the local Wayland protocol, using XWayland or RDP or whatever other protocol you fancy. There is no need to cripple the rendering infrastructure for local applications by making it handle remoting as well.
X11 was never network-transparent for non-trivial applications written to take advantage of modern GPUs. The performance characteristics of local and remote rendering are so distinct as to require completely different design decisions on the application side. It really doesn't make sense these days to operate the GPU by remote control over the network, or to transport (uncompressed!) pixmaps as most modern applications would due to the limitations of the ancient X11 drawing primitives. Applications these days rely on DRM and Xshm for efficient display and do not function well when these local-only interfaces are unavailable.
The native Wayland approach to remoting, admittedly still a work in progress, is to do all the latency-sensitive rendering locally to the application and take advantage of the codec acceleration capabilities of modern GPUs to transport the final result as a compressed video stream. This is a far more sensible approach, and unlike X11 will actually be transparent to the applications.
Posted Nov 29, 2016 17:55 UTC (Tue)
by zlynx (guest, #2285)
[Link]
Posted Nov 27, 2016 12:15 UTC (Sun)
by jem (subscriber, #24231)
[Link]
There is not much you can see in either X11 or (implementations of) Wayland. The visible parts are implemented by toolkits, window managers, desktop environments, etc. There is no reason for these to change appearance just because the engine room has been modernised.
Posted Nov 26, 2016 19:43 UTC (Sat)
by Per_Bothner (subscriber, #7375)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Nov 26, 2016 23:55 UTC (Sat)
by cortana (subscriber, #24596)
[Link] (4 responses)
To say that I was surprised when GNOME 3.22 removed the ability to configure a compose key is something of an understatement. Fortunately you can still configure it in gnome-tweak-tool, or directly in dconf (set /org/gnome/desktop/input-sources/sources/xkb-options to e.g., ['compose:rwin', 'lv3:ralt_switch']).
Posted Nov 27, 2016 0:03 UTC (Sun)
by Per_Bothner (subscriber, #7375)
[Link] (2 responses)
I looked in gnome-tweak-tool - but I looked under "Keyboard and Mouse". I didn't notice the "Typing" tab. Oops.
I think having a separate gnome-tweak-tool application is very unnatural - these things should be part of the general Setting editor, optionally hidden under an "Advanced" button/tab. (And in gnome-tweak-tool having "Typing" be separate from "Keyboard and Mouse" is also rather unnatural.)
Posted Dec 3, 2016 14:39 UTC (Sat)
by ebassi (subscriber, #54855)
[Link] (1 responses)
Or, better, it's the "staging" tab: settings get moved in and out between the two depending on whether we have a good design for them or not. After all, underneath both tweak tool and system settings live the same configuration engine; it's mostly a matter of design and user interaction where in the GUI those settings are displayed.
Posted Dec 3, 2016 18:05 UTC (Sat)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link]
Functionally that's true but from a UX perspective Tweak Tool is a different thing which needs to be installed and launched separately, it's not integrated with the main Settings tool. Having the Tweak UI move into Settings behind an "advanced" filter would be better usability for some people
Posted Nov 27, 2016 22:42 UTC (Sun)
by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698)
[Link]
Posted Nov 27, 2016 6:39 UTC (Sun)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Nov 27, 2016 7:13 UTC (Sun)
by spaetz (guest, #32870)
[Link] (1 responses)
You are trying to be ironic here, aren't you? If not, the same argument would serve to remove English support.
Posted Nov 27, 2016 7:28 UTC (Sun)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link]
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https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=492433
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99508
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/usr/bin/startkde does *not* source ~/.profile, as startkde is not a login shell (but might be called from one). Parsing ~/.profile is up to the DM. At least in Debian, ssdm (in testing) and kdm (in stable) sources ~/.profile *before* calling /usr/bin/startkde (or /usr/bin/startplasmacompositor, the wayland equivalent).
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The blame doesn't come from an initial implementation that doesn't provide important functionality. The problem comes after the bug has been filed, and hasn't been addressed (still broken in Fedora today). I read the complete comment log of the bugs filed about this (that I found) and that's what caused me to shake my head.
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Please don't try to lecture me about the responsibilities of free software users. I've been a user and contributor to free software since before many of the people reading this site were born, since before version 1 of the GPL was even published.
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This problem is not solved with few lines of code otherwise it had been done already.
Any solution that has been proposed and perhaps implemented thus far afaik will not migrate users current setup, work per user in multi-user environment and or will not work on shared system with different distributions on different releases,work across all desktop environments and in all cases will be hell to administrate for anyone required to do so.
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That means you don't have to update as many of your applications to work under wayland than you would have to if it behaved slightly different in ways applications shouldn't be depending on but do.
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Wol
I find this quote from the X12 page to be amusing, in a sad way:
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Maintain Network Transparency
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brouhaha's reply is a great example why Wayland is not seen as X13 by the users!
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There is libweston to factorize code but AFAIK it's not used in Gnome or KDE.
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compose key broken?
I don't see any setting for it in Settings / Keyboard (in spite of the Gnome documentation).
A relatively small matter, but it makes writing in Norwegian on a US keyboard harder :-(
compose key broken?
compose key broken?
compose key broken?
compose key broken?
With GNOME you're not supposed to customize things. You're supposed to have your system set up in the One True Configuration, handed down to us on stone tablets by the GNOME developers.
compose key broken?
compose key broken?
compose key broken?
compose key broken?