Finding a new home for Thunderbird
From: | Gervase Markham <gerv-4eJtQOnFJqFAfugRpC6u6w-AT-public.gmane.org> | |
To: | mozilla-governance-CzyLcWPZiU5YsZ3hbOqMTti2O/JbrIOy-AT-public.gmane.org | |
Subject: | Thunderbird Update | |
Date: | Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:33:09 +0100 | |
Message-ID: | <1qydneJhoIVIyYPKnZ2dnUU7-QnNnZ2d@mozilla.org> | |
Archive‑link: | Article |
Hi everyone, Last December, we had a conversation[0] in this forum about the future of Thunderbird, initiated by Mitchell. At the time, we said that we would move to separate Thunderbird from Firefox’s release engineering infrastructure. Since then, we have been reviewing the options for a clear path forward for Thunderbird with a view to ensure its long-term stability while providing it with the right independence. We have looked both at the technical dimension and the organizational aspects, and this message gives an update on where we are. On the technical side, it has become clear over the past few years that Thunderbird and Firefox have diverging needs and that the fact that they share a common release engineering infrastructure puts a strain on both Thunderbird and Firefox’s developments. We came to the conclusion that we needed to disentangle them. We’ve started the process of helping the Thunderbird Council chart a course forward for Thunderbird’s future technical direction, by posting a job specification[1] for a technical architect. In the next weeks, we will assign the chosen person the mission to assess the situation holistically, provide advice to the Thunderbird leadership on how best to proceed and draft a plan to help separate the technology underpinning Thunderbird from the one supporting Firefox. This means that Thunderbird will need an organization to support these new experiments. It will also need the legal ability to raise money to finance itself. Mozilla has put in place the ability for Thunderbird to take donations in the short term. But we need to decide where the best home is for the long term. Therefore, we are today publishing a report[2] authored by open source leader Simon Phipps that explores options for a future organizational home for Thunderbird. This can be discussed either here or on the tb-planning mailing list. This is the start of a conversation, not the end, and we hope the Thunderbird community will have a productive discussion about the best path. We hope that, by mid-2016, the outcome of this process will be a clear path forward for Thunderbird, both on a technical and on an organizational level, towards a solution that ensures long-term stability. Mark Surman has also posted a blog post[3] with more about the origins of the transition process and the steps towards Thunderbird independence. I am assisting the Thunderbird project through this process and am also happy to answer questions. Gerv [0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21msg/mozilla.governanc... [1] https://careers.mozilla.org/position/ohUW2fwT [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/files/2016/04/Findin... [3] https://marksurman.commons.ca/2016/04/25/firefox-and-thun... _______________________________________________ governance mailing list governance@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
Posted Apr 26, 2016 11:58 UTC (Tue)
by oever (guest, #987)
[Link] (19 responses)
KDE is a large community with very good infrastructure for Free Software projects. Most of those project are currently C++, just like Thunderbird. All the advantages that are listed for TDF apply to KDE and then some. Where TDF is all about one (important) code base, LibreOffice, KDE is about any software that helps to achieve digital freedom.
KDE is not just Qt based software. It invites any project that subscribes to the KDE manifesto to join. KDE recently published its vision: A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys freedom and privacy. This is a vision that I'm sure the Thunderbird developers have too.
Like Apache, KDE has an incubation process that specifies the steps to becoming a KDE project. A recent incubee is WikiToLearn.
Like TDF, KDE is based in Germany. KDE volunteers host excellent facilities for continous integration, translation, code quality assurance, code review and issue management that are available to all KDE projects.
Posted Apr 26, 2016 12:25 UTC (Tue)
by webmink (guest, #47180)
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Posted Apr 26, 2016 16:45 UTC (Tue)
by tao (subscriber, #17563)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Apr 26, 2016 16:59 UTC (Tue)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link] (1 responses)
That way everyone wins: Thunderbird users get a well-supported cross-platform foundation, and KDE gets a mail client that works!
Posted Apr 27, 2016 20:24 UTC (Wed)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link]
Posted Apr 26, 2016 17:42 UTC (Tue)
by oever (guest, #987)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Apr 27, 2016 6:53 UTC (Wed)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
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Posted Apr 26, 2016 17:39 UTC (Tue)
by yodermk (subscriber, #3803)
[Link] (1 responses)
I used KMail for years until the KDE 4 version botched the ability to enlarge text, so I was forced to switch to Thunderbird.
Maybe some kind of integration would be a win for all, but with two very different toolkits that would likely be difficult.
Posted Apr 26, 2016 19:59 UTC (Tue)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
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Posted Apr 26, 2016 18:22 UTC (Tue)
by kreijack (guest, #43513)
[Link] (7 responses)
Even tough this is an interesting option, I am not sure if this is a good one.
Thunderbird is cross platform (Linux, OSX, Windows) and it is based on GTK and xul. Instead the KDE application are Qt based and "linux" mostly (only ?). So even tough KDE is big enough to support Thunderbird, the technologies are very different.
IMHO TDF is a more suitable option: LibreOffice is cross platform, and these developers already have an experience to support a "very big beast" based to a not so common toolkit (Thunderbird is based to the specific Mozilla "xul" technology, LibreOffice was based on an its own toolkit). Moreover KDE already has (had ?) KMail: there would be a conflict of interests.
Anyway I am (negatively) impressed that there is a so low interest in supporting Thunderbird: it is one of the last cross platform non web email client. I think that it should have a very large user base. It is strange that Mozillia is not willing to support it anymore.
Posted Apr 26, 2016 18:53 UTC (Tue)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link] (2 responses)
The overwhelming majority of non-corporate users utilize a webmail client (or maybe a native smartphone app). And the corporate market can be summarized in one word: Outlook.
(Incidentally, Thunderbird+Lightning+EWS Provider appears to be a decent Outlook alternative if you're stuck with Exchange on the backend. It's far more stable and performant than Evolution..)
Posted Apr 27, 2016 6:27 UTC (Wed)
by joib (subscriber, #8541)
[Link]
Given that mozilla is, in the long term, apparently planning to get rid of XUL in favor of something like browser.html, TB certainly has a lot of work to do regardless of whether they choose to migrate (mailclient.html?) or pick up the maintenance burden for XUL.
Posted Apr 28, 2016 12:31 UTC (Thu)
by david.brown@hesbynett.no (guest, #104286)
[Link]
As for home use, I can only speak for myself and my immediate family - we have all used Thunderbird since its inception.
I would like to see Thunderbird move to The Document Foundation. Those folks have made a great deal of effort into compatibility with MS's ever-changing variations of formats for office documents, and I believe they would be able to integrate MS Exchange support (at least EWS) into Thunderbird to provide a complete alternative to MS Office.
Posted Apr 26, 2016 19:58 UTC (Tue)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link]
People keep thinking along the old lines. Gnome versus KDE, GTK versus Qt... It's outdated.
KDE is home to a whole lot of application, like the desktop project, but also other projects like Krita, Digikam, Kexi, Peruse, KStars... Which are all cross-platform. Krita has more Windows users than Linux users, by a terrifyingly large margin. But it's a KDE project. Then there are web-based projects, Qt-based projects, even GTK-based projects.
Posted Apr 26, 2016 23:17 UTC (Tue)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link] (2 responses)
KDE isn't even remotely Linux-only. KDE 3 ran fine on Cygwin, and I've heard bits and pieces of the newer DEs run natively on other OSes. So there's no portability problem there, as would be expected from a toolkit designed to be portable in the first place.
And I think they have plenty of experience with “big” apps: Krita is available everywhere LibreOffice is.
Posted Apr 28, 2016 17:41 UTC (Thu)
by kreijack (guest, #43513)
[Link] (1 responses)
It seems that there was a porting of kde 4.10.2 to windows [1]; but this is a work date 2013...
I can believe that there is a porting of kde4 to windows, but I don't think that the installation base of kde4 in windows is somewhat comparable to libreoffice and/or Thunderbird....
Posted Apr 28, 2016 18:39 UTC (Thu)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
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Posted Apr 27, 2016 10:46 UTC (Wed)
by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742)
[Link] (2 responses)
I mean, it is not very far fetched to interpret using the Qt- and KDE-libraries and cmake to build a GUI application as "established practices".
Posted Apr 27, 2016 12:24 UTC (Wed)
by sebas (guest, #51660)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Apr 28, 2016 6:48 UTC (Thu)
by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742)
[Link]
Simon omitted KDE from the list of possible homes for Mozilla Thunderbird. It would be good to amend the document to include KDE.
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
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KDE already has a number of GTK projects such as breeze-gtk and kde-gtk-config.
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
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Finding a new home for Thunderbird
> It would be good to amend the document to include KDE.
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
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Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Seriously ? Let me to inform you that KDE3 is quite old :))))
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird
Finding a new home for Thunderbird