Systemd vs. Docker

Posted Feb 25, 2016 17:44 UTC (Thu) by niner (subscriber, #26151)
In reply to: Systemd vs. Docker by shykes
Parent article: Systemd vs. Docker

"so t seems a bit unsafe to allow users to play in this low level way. It would be unfortunate if "docker" broke because a hook was actually broken."

This reasoning with which pull request 17021 [1] was closed sounds has nothing to do with technical reasons and seems to be mostly about Docker Inc.'s marketing requirements. That in itself is still ok I guess, companies need to live after all. But please at least be honest about it. Otherwise you're just showing contempt for contributors.

[1] https://github.com/docker/docker/pull/17021

Systemd vs. Docker

Posted Feb 25, 2016 17:51 UTC (Thu) by shykes (guest, #107289) [Link] (3 responses)

Sorry, I have a hard time seeing the connection to marketing? All I see is a classic argument of where to draw the line between extensibility and quality. Can you explain in more detail how this relates to marketing?

Systemd vs. Docker

Posted Feb 25, 2016 18:01 UTC (Thu) by niner (subscriber, #26151) [Link] (2 responses)

"It would be unfortunate if "docker" broke because a hook was actually broken." is about protecting the docker brand. The worry here is that some container has a bug in its hook and a user blames docker for the result which would hurt docker's reputation and therefore Docker Inc.'s business. That's not a technical argument in any way. It's not about the user, because a feature that can be misused is still better than not having the feature at all. It's just about business. Which as I said, is ok. It's just not ok to pretend it's anything else.

Systemd vs. Docker

Posted Feb 25, 2016 18:26 UTC (Thu) by shykes (guest, #107289) [Link] (1 responses)

I don't necessarily agree with Jess on this topic - I think hooks are a good idea if implemented right. But you're questioning her motivations in a very strange and irritating way.

> It's not about the user, because a feature that can be misused is still better than not having the feature at all

That's not how it works. Just because you disagree with someone's opinion of what's best for the user doesn't make it "not about the user".

You are talking about someone who has reviewed literally THOUSANDS of patches and worked very hard to earn the respect lf Docker users and contributors. You are entitled to disagreeing with her. But who are you, exactly, to disrespect her motivations and speak on behalf of the user with more authority than she does?

Systemd vs. Docker

Posted Feb 25, 2016 18:51 UTC (Thu) by niner (subscriber, #26151) [Link]

As I lack any insight on her motivation, I can only go with what she wrote. And how what she wrote sounds to me (a complete outsider, neither affiliated with RedHat or Docker Inc. and not even using any of either's products) I told you. You asked me to elaborate and I did. Now it may be that she only had the user's in her mind when she wrote that and how debugging becomes harder because the user would be led to looking at the wrong part of the stack. If that's the case, I of course apologize for being judgmental.

Please note that I at least tried to write about "what it sounds like" in my original post, even if that obviously became victim to poor editing of the sentence. I used definitive expressions for the sake of clarity after you asked me to explain. As English is not my native language, that seemed like a safer way to get the reasoning across.

Maybe she can chime in and enlighten us on the real meaning of her words?