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Fedora opens up to bundling

Fedora opens up to bundling

Posted Oct 14, 2015 7:54 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Fedora opens up to bundling by Karellen
Parent article: Fedora opens up to bundling

I'm almost serious.

Of course, security is a feature. But it's rarely the central feature of an app (with obvious exceptions like payment or banking apps). And as I've said, most security problems attributed to bundled libraries are way overblown.

Bundling is here to stay. Distributions should stop fighting it and instead should concentrate on making it safer.

Stop the war on drugs^W bundling, legalize safe bundling!

> If you do not think so, I sincerely hope I'm never in the position that I need to use any of the software you've had any significant hand in.
Too late. You're likely using a service (maybe indirectly) that I'm helping to develop and supporting.


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Fedora opens up to bundling

Posted Oct 14, 2015 9:10 UTC (Wed) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link] (2 responses)

In some cases you could automate security patches for bundled libraries at the source package level. Scan the package's source tree for what looks like cut-and-pasted code or copies of existing libraries like zlib. A human audits this stage for false positives. Then, when a new zlib version comes out (and is a point release - x.y.z where only z has changed), create a patch automatically and apply it to the source tree of all packages that bundle their own zlib, at the same time filing a bug upstream.

Fedora opens up to bundling

Posted Oct 14, 2015 17:50 UTC (Wed) by alankila (guest, #47141) [Link] (1 responses)

All this probably achieves the same problem we are currently trying to solve.

The problem is exact behavioral stability -- software is so fragile that any changes to the environment, no matter how benign or useful -- risks breaking the software. The API can be the same, all it takes is some little race condition, or some change to the behavior of the underlying functions, and boom! breakage results. To keep software working, we basically have to choose between "features that function" and "has useful things like security updates".

Linux distributions have, so far, prioritized security updates, and the feasibility of tracking them. However, I still think that the only right solution is severe hardening of the operating system such that minor problems and buffer overflows in the application or its libraries can only have a limited security impact. It is far more useful to get away from the "egg" security model, aka "the hard shell and soft interior" model than it is to design elaborate update protocols and security requirements that assume we can find the bugs and then patch them without breaking the software in the process in the first place.

So yeah, bring us bundling, but also bring us a security model that ensures that even if there is a buffer overflow or whatever security issue that permits arbitrary code execution, it at best destroys that application's data rather than compromises the entire user account.

Fedora opens up to bundling

Posted Oct 14, 2015 17:55 UTC (Wed) by hkario (subscriber, #94864) [Link]

> So yeah, bring us bundling, but also bring us a security model that
> ensures that even if there is a buffer overflow or whatever
> security issue that permits arbitrary code execution, it at best
> destroys that application's data

https://xkcd.com/1200/
just switch "computer" for "browser"


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