Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1

Posted Apr 28, 2015 16:53 UTC (Tue) by d9 (guest, #102181)
In reply to: Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1 by johannbg
Parent article: Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1

> stop the kernel communities theatrics

The theatrics in this thread come from your side. Such as: "mostly philosophical", "benchmarking mud slide", "gut feelings, magic eight balls and voodoo dolls", "white knights", "holy grail", "pony farmed". Is this attitude considered appropriate in the fedora community?

> exist no such thing as perfectly bug free optimized code

No, but I disagree with your statement that it is normal for an implementation which has the main goal of *optimizing* the solution to a problem not to come with reproducible benchmarks and profiling that shows that it is working (or at least that it is feasible). Experienced engineers should know that you *cannot* optimize a piece of code as long as you have not *identified the bottleneck*.

Also it is not correct what you said that a working kernel implementation is needed to check if moving the code to the kernel can lead to a significant improvement. There are plenty ways to check if moving the data through the kernel is the bottleneck of DBus.

Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1

Posted Apr 28, 2015 16:58 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (3 responses)

> Is this attitude considered appropriate in the fedora community?

No, and Johann has been warned about this attitude on multiple occasions.

Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1

Posted Apr 28, 2015 17:19 UTC (Tue) by d9 (guest, #102181) [Link]

I think I (and others in other threads) hold the blame too. Unfortunately it is easy for these discussions to derail and become confrontational.

But in this case (kdbus) I think the solution is quite simple: with patience, benchmark, profile, share numbers with the community, make improvements, repeat. Whatever decision is taken, I'm sure DBus will be improved.

Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1

Posted Apr 28, 2015 20:29 UTC (Tue) by johannbg (guest, #65743) [Link] (1 responses)

After I received threats for my simple work on the systemd integration migration or simple association with Lennart ( take your pick why certain individual sent me those systemd releated hate mails ) and even had Red Hat employees threat me on Red Hat/Fedora events with a clear cut message that I should adhere to the whims of the Red Hat Desktop team or I would be outed from the project ( and I aint talking about the KDE part of that team ) my subtlety went out the window so the part of this behaviour being accepted in the Fedora community then the answer to that is yes if you are a Red Hat employee worst case scenario you get a slap on your wrist by your "manager" however that kernel remark comes directly from individual from the kernel community itself which makes one believe they make decisions based on some black magic these days instead of technical hard facts.

" OTOH I am still convinced kdbus is the wrong solution, for the sole
reason called gut feeling. " <--

1. https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/4/21/120

Kernel prepatch 4.1-rc1

Posted Apr 28, 2015 21:12 UTC (Tue) by d9 (guest, #102181) [Link]

That's awful and I'm truly sorry to hear you had to go through that.

Unfortunately it doesn't surprise me that there has been so much tension in the Linux community over the last couple of years (but I didn't know things got so far, that's crazy!). A lot of changes happened quickly and many projects were affected or killed. It's not fun to work on/with something for years (possibly as a volunteer) and see that it all gets flushed down the toilet over night. Even more so when you feel things are forced on you by distros.

Something is clearly wrong with the community, although I'm not sure what. Maybe there's too much money and corporate interests involved.