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Makers and open source

By Nathan Willis
February 25, 2015

SCALE 2015

At SCALE 13x in Los Angeles, Ruth Suehle spoke about the "maker" movement and its relationship to the open-source community—but she made it clear that, despite the affinity that the communities feel for each other, there are some stark differences between the two. The most troubling difference is that, particularly in recent years, the maker movement has drifted toward an "open by accident" model, without a strong commitment to freely sharing information. But open-source advocates can bring the maker movement back around, she said, by showing how they have addressed tricky problems like license compatibility and the challenge of making money while "giving everything away."

Suehle, who called herself a maker at heart, started off with a historical look at "making" in the physical world, from the advent of stone-age tools up through modern electronics. Sharing information is a through-line that permeates this history: early humans had to share information from person to person, she said. Imagine what the outcome would have been if one cave man refused to discuss discovering fire, she suggested. [Ruth Suehle]

But in much more recent times, people decided to stop sharing their knowledge. The ancient Greek city-state of Sybaris granted a patent-like protection to cooks, safeguarding their recipes against imitators for a year. A bit later, Roman blacksmiths started putting literal "trade marks" on their wares. In the 6th Century, the Irish missionary Saint Columba sparked one of the first conflicts over copyright when an abbot objected to Columba's practice of hand-copying books. The modern framework for patents originated with glassmakers in 1600s Venice—and rapidly spread to the rest of the world.

We now live in a world with contradictory messages about sharing, Suehle said. One of the first lessons children are taught is that sharing is important but, ironically, the adults who do the teaching no longer believe in the principle. In effect, they say "you should share your toys ... just as long as they're not my toys." This viewpoint, along with the rise of disposable consumer goods culture, led to the decline of fixing and repairing one's own property, she said.

The maker movement (at least, in the modern sense) started off as a revival of this older interest in fixing and modifying things. Suehle pointed out that the maker movement coincided with the prominence of "steampunk"—which just happens to be a throwback to an earlier era when technology was about hands-on work and tangible machinery.

Open by accident

Given its roots in the historical practice of sharing information, she said, it might seem like the maker movement should be enthusiastically committed to an "open by default" ethic. But that is not the way the maker movement is trending. Similarly, the open-hardware movement, while more formal about its principles than the decentralized maker movement, also seems to be drifting away from open-by-design ideas, with projects keeping certain parts of their work secret. Instead, she said, the movement seems to feature openness by accident, with people sharing their projects online solely because it is the "Internet age" and the Internet is the easiest way to publicize something.

By way of example, Suehle described her trip to the Open Hardware Summit in 2012. She went expecting to see lots of strong connections to the open-source movement, she said—but came away with deep concerns. Her write-up of the event for Opensource.com was headlined "Open Hardware Summit open to hybrid models," an assessment that she told the SCALE crowd was putting things optimistically.

In actuality, she found it deeply disconcerting how many high-profile speakers at the summit had downplayed or openly rejected the ideals of transparency and openness. She quoted keynote speaker Chris Anderson, who started off his talk by saying: "Everything I've learned as I built my own business is because people shared what they knew." But he followed that up a few minutes later with a different sentiment entirely, saying "I don't think we should be dogmatic. We need to consider other possibilities and approaches to open-based innovation."

In a more extreme example, she pointed out that Makerbot founder Bre Pettis had said in 2011 that "In the future, people will remember businesses that refused to share with their customers and wonder how they could be so backwards." But less than a year later, Makerbot took its previously open-hardware products closed. Pettis made that announcement at the summit:

For the Replicator 2, we will not share the way the physical machine is designed or our GUI because we don’t think carbon-copy cloning is acceptable and carbon-copy clones undermine our ability to pay people to do development.

Later, during his keynote at the event, Pettis referenced the community's reaction:

People said, 'You did open source hardware; this is totally allowed under the license. What did you expect?'" It's true. They're right. This is the result of something we did, but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

The same story was found at Maker Faires, Suehle said. In early years, the events were dominated by booths from Sparkfun and Radio Shack where visitors could learn to solder. Today, the exhibitors are predominantly there selling products—and, in many cases, products with (at best) tenuous connections to the maker movement, like Purina's latest line of cat feeders.

How open source can help

Suehle also noticed that essentially no one at these events was running Linux, which is telling. The maker community seems to be struggling today with many of the same problems that the open-source community solved ten years ago. Those problems include how to cope with project cloning, how to address legal issues, how to work with the user community, and how to make money.

The cloning issue, she said, is what Makerbot "freaked out" about, causing the company to take its Replicator2 printer proprietary. But there are plenty of success stories among those companies who release only open-source products—Suehle's employer, Red Hat, being one, she said. And there are examples of successful open hardware closely tied to the open-source software world. The Raspberry Pi, she said, has been cloned and modified and duplicated many times; "if there's a fruit, somebody has made a 'Pi' board for it," she said. Yet that has not diluted the popularity or success of the Raspberry Pi Foundation's products.

Makers and open hardware projects have legal concerns distinct from open source, she said. While open-source software is driven by copyright licensing, factors other than copyright are involved when dealing with physical objects. The community has developed two separate open-hardware licenses: one from CERN and one from Tucson Amateur Packet Radio (TAPR). Both, interestingly enough, are named "Open Hardware License." Reconciling them may prove difficult, but that is the sort of problem that the open-source community has dealt with many times in the past.

Suehle pointed out that the open-source movement resolved many of its difficulties by working through them as a community, which the maker movement will probably do as well. Today much of the maker movement community is found in local and regional hackerspaces. The hackerspaces are often isolated from one another, but there are examples where the movement is working together in large-scale, national or international efforts, which is a promising sign. She gave the open medical-device community as a key example.

The next challenge for the maker movement will be to figure out viable business models that can make money, she said. Many of the movement's highest-profile successes have been crowdfunding campaigns. They can have positive benefits, such as building an interested user community before launch, but they are still far from an instant-success formula.

The good news, Suehle said in conclusion, was that the drift away from "open by default" thinking among a few key players in the maker movement by no means spells disaster. Ultimately, the maker movement is made up of millions of people, and the open-source community can help them re-center themselves. Makers are a community that like to adapt and that thrive on innovation.

The open-source community knows both of those principles well—Suehle pointed out that open-source developers are, in fact, "makers" in their own right. The question is, what will the open-source community do to make things better in the maker movement, and to encourage the maker movement's virtuous cycle of innovation?

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to post comments

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 26, 2015 11:30 UTC (Thu) by ortalo (guest, #4654) [Link] (24 responses)

A key and often forgotten [1] advantage of software is the very very tiny cost of copying/massproduction, especially nowadays with wide availability of storage and digital communication networks. So costs are nearly of the all-conception and nothing-production variety.

Material devices do not share this characteristics, so the maker who does the effort to make N items needs to get some specific reward that it can use later on to recoup its specific effort for his production run. It is sensible that this reward be commensurate with the effort and that effort may be very different for initial players and for those who just base their production over existing designs and knowhow shared by the pioneers.
The problem is that money is not an adequate item for such kind of differential compensation: the money given to the first-time inventor is the same as the one of those going into raw-copying or mass-production or optimization. Maybe first-makers should be given special karma that they can use to buy much rarer things (like others first-makers designs use rights for example).

IMHO, such back-pedaling on open hardware (which I think I have observed a few times for more than a decade in fact) exhibits limits of the way money is erroneously used as a universal measure/compensation, while maybe other rewards for design sharing should be seeked. (BTW, maybe this confirms that legal protection of intellectual work is not only necessary but also that is protection should not be saleable or monetized.) I'll stop here as such reasoning would easily slip into the political domain; but IMHO a solution must be found if we want makers or open hardware innovators to really take advantage of the sharing we enjoy in open source software.

[1] Especially by those who keep on paying for commercial software and pay year after year for the same string of bits that nearly costs nothing to reproduce. BTW, note music and video recordings have similar characteristics...

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 26, 2015 12:18 UTC (Thu) by cas (guest, #52554) [Link] (23 responses)

physical products cost money to produce and distribute, but *designs* can be shared with exactly the same negligible costs as software....and designs can be created and improved in exactly the same low-budget way as software: i.e. by individuals and groups contributing their time and skill to the effort.

sure, some hardware experiments have significant materials and setup expenses....but, then, some software projects require significant expenses in computer hardware and internet connections too.

and open hardware like raspberry pi and arduino and many others also greatly reduce the expense of many hardware projects by providing a solid base to adapt and improve upon.

in short, i don't think there is an inherent actual difference between develpment of open hardware and open software but there is a significant cultural difference.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 26, 2015 15:00 UTC (Thu) by ortalo (guest, #4654) [Link] (16 responses)

I include the cost of building the factory in the cost of building hardware. This is significantly higher than building a computer program.

Note that running a software services for thousands of users is expensive too if you include the cost of building the data center in it...

My point is that these costs are not the same costs as the human time (and skills) needed to write software.
So we may need to secure different rewards for the various actors depending on the effort invested so that sharing something does not compromise further activity.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 26, 2015 22:48 UTC (Thu) by cas (guest, #52554) [Link] (2 responses)

yes, i understood that. my point was that the cost of design - not production! - is the same as the cost developing software. design can be done with no more expense than a good computer (or even pencil and paper) so there's no reason why sharing designs under open-source-like licenses should not be as common as it is for software.

design IS software. and sharing designs with an open license results in the same kinds of incremental, user-driven improvement that sharing software does.

you don't need to build a factory just to design something - you only need the factory if you're actually mass producing the design....and, yes, it's perfectly reasonable to profit from that production same as it's reasonable to profit from the creation and distribution of CDs full of free software.

designs, though, can and should be free. for all the same reasons that software can and should be free. free as in freedom, not necessarily price - the freedoms to use, modify, and redistribute for any purpose by anyone (and preferably with GPL-analogous rules about making the "source" or design of modified versions available under the same terms)

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 9:11 UTC (Fri) by ortalo (guest, #4654) [Link] (1 responses)

I agree entirely on the similarity of hardware/software design.

But apparently, makers have indeed a different issue to solve which is: how to avoid *losing* money (on useless production investments) due to others using the design they share. (Note the difference between loss of potential revenues and raw loss of investments.)

The current short-cut answer of makers to this risk is to stop sharing design or to go back to the IP law protection which give a sort of monopoly on production to inventors for some (pretty randow) number of years. BTW, It seems small and medium business do not think the 2nd option is feasible for them (not enough lawyers I guess).

I think we need a new alternative. Give people who share their design additional rights/karma/benefits/rewards with which they can shop something valuable that their competitors cannot benefit from. Possibly one free production run?

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 9:26 UTC (Fri) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

Well, the initial designers do have an advantage, they are first to market and have figured out the production/assembly problems before their competitors start.

but the disadvantage they have is that other people can make improvements (with fresh eyes to boot). All too frequently the first group to produce things gets so caught up in making and selling their initial design that they stop improving it, at which point it's only a matter of time until the competition beats them.

In a very few cases, the competition is better funded, or just better positioned to manufacture the product and as a result can start selling an identical product fairly quickly at a lower cost. But in this case, if the particular design that was copied wasn't available, there are quite a few others that could be used instead.

the thing that these people aren't remembering is that none of them created these designs completely from scratch. They all started with existing designs (either other maker designs or from industrial equipment) and are adapting them to a new situation (or new price point) or making incremental improvements to them. They are "standing on the shoulders of giants" and trying to prevent anyone else from climbing above them.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 3:34 UTC (Fri) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (12 responses)

If you are including the cost of building the factory, then the person who build a clone (or improved clone) of someone's design is paying this cost as well.

A reminder of what the problem is here.

Joe designs something, builds it (sells it, making money), and distributes the design.

Bill takes the design that Joe distributed and builds the same thing (or an improved version of it), sells it, making money

Joe is upset because people paid Bill for their item rather than paying Joe for his.

This is exactly the same issue as the software version

Joe writes code and releases it under the two-clause BSD license

Bill takes the code that Joe wrote and includes it in his project, releasing it under the GPLv2 license

Joe gets upset at Bill and complains because people are using Bill's software rather than Joe's software.

The Maker community and the 'Modder' community both frequently suffer from the lack of sharing. People releasing new firmware for phones, mods to consoles, etc are very reluctant to work together or to get their patches upstream. All to frequently they get upset at other people using their work as a stepping stone.

Frankly, there is a huge amount of room for improvement, and no one development team is going to have all the ideas, the expertise, or even the time to read all the possible publications that could let them know about potential improvements. It would be a huge benefit overall to have people sharing more, even if it makes it harder for some small businesses in the short term.

Again, look at software. "how can anyone make a business when they give the software source code away for free", but RedHat has made a billion dollar business out of it.

But the businesses that make money by writing opensource software is only part of the picture, there is a much larger group of companies that are able to exist only because they are _using_ opensource software. The uncertainty about the future of open hardware projects remaining open helps limit the extent that they are going to be adopted.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 9:32 UTC (Fri) by ortalo (guest, #4654) [Link] (4 responses)

Good idea to put names on the examples. However, I would state it differently.

Joe designs something and publish the design and that's similar to open-source software, I agree. Forget about it. (Though Joe would deserve to benefit from that work, but well.)

Do not forget however that this is the design of something material. So this design is useless (even to Joe) if it does not get built.
So Joe *spends* money to make items (maybe alone, maybe not).
Some items sell and he makes some amount of money, but not much. Joe may even be losing money.

However, people buy the device. So Bill comes in. Takes the design, optimizes the production, builds more devices, does some marketing, sells items and make some good money.

Then, Joe stops sharing his designs forever.
Even if Bill shares later his own improvements to Joe's design.

Granted, in this scenario, Bill is better than Joe at production. But that does not mean that the result is fair because the design is important too (no? ;-). And that scenario is probable too because noone is good at everything.
IP law tries to oblige Bill to share with Joe some of benefits but I am not so comfortable with it either (in the real world, such laws have some many drawbacks and deficiencies).

Earlier, I proposed an alternative: give Joe a right for some production runs on any production line. But I am open to any other idea.
After all, the first best thing for a designer is probably to see its design come real, the second best is said to be being copied so... ;-)

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 9:52 UTC (Fri) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (1 responses)

how can you give joe "rights" to a production run that someone else would have to pay for? and how would you define the size of a "production run"

The thing is that while the initial design is important, implementing that design (production) is also important. There are a lot of people who are creative designers, but their designs are not easy to manufacture. A person who can tweak the design to be easier (cheaper) to manufacture is adding a lot of value to the design.

Just because you are a designer (or a programmer who has written an app and uploaded it to a major app store) doesn't mean that someone else can't look at what you've done and make a business out of it when you can't. It doesn't always even require sharing the design documents, most things could be reverse engineered by examining a completed machine (although having access to the design docs does make it easier).

So back to the example, if Joe is loosing money on what he's selling, he's doing it wrong. Yes, there may be a minimum number that needs to be sold, but that's what things like kickstarter are great for. If Joe publishes his design, Bill has to start planning the manufacturing process after Joe has built and sold some (to prove that it's a good design). If Joe can't sell the rest of his first production run to break even before Bill does all his planning, builds his copies, and markets them, then Joe has failed the marketing/sales side of business.

You don't have a right to make a profit, you do have a right to try and make a profit.

Part of the problem we are seeing in the Maker space is that companies that got a lot of community support because they were open, are going to loose it (with a backlash) as they try and close things. In some cases (I'm thinking of makerbot that you can now buy from Home Depot) they may survive for a good while, but loosing the grass roots is going to hurt you eventually.

In the software space we have seen this many times over, companies start off targeting home users and grow larger and move into the "enterprise" space, decide that the home users aren't really what they want to support, and then several years later are surprised with their replacement among the home users starts to threaten their enterprise income.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 5, 2015 14:05 UTC (Thu) by ortalo (guest, #4654) [Link]

Yes, ok. But how do you feed Joe? That's a necessity, because in our scheme, he is the only designer and he is the one hungry - unless he stops doing open-source something he will do as soon as he starts starving to oblige Bill to give back something.
Remember, initially, I wanted to propose an explantion on why makers currently seem to give up on open source design of material products... not defend the idea for the software world which has near zero production costs...

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 28, 2015 13:53 UTC (Sat) by HIGHGuY (subscriber, #62277) [Link] (1 responses)

In my opinion, the right thing to do is to decouple design and productizing.

Joe designs something and is the first to do so. He takes the hurdles required to productize it and sell his items. Since the design is open, he and others can and will improve it.

When Bill takes his design and productizes it, Joe needs to make a decision:
Stop productizing and leave that task up to Bill (effectively ceasing all non-design work and probably stop designing for money). Or he can minimize the design work to adding value in small increments and focus on productizing and competing with Bill.

He should not go full length to do _all_ design and _all_ productization. Design costs a lot of money if you need to pay people for it. When under external pressure by someone who took your design, you have to choose what to focus on.

As some may have understood from this example, it is crucial that the design carries an appropriate license where Bill's changes can flow back to the original design. For example GPL for the 'non-virtual' world.

I believe there's a big opportunity out there to connect ideas with people good at productizing. A website where people can sell ideas for a fixed fee or percentage of the profit could probably boom quite fast. This could bridge the gap somewhat for issues like this.

Luckily, however, the maker movement has the opportunity to make building material ideas a lot cheaper.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 28, 2015 23:04 UTC (Sat) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

'selling' rights to manufacture things isn't compatible with Open Source principals, let along Free Software principals. Designers can do this today, without any need for help from anyone else.

The thing that we want to see is to encourage designers to let other people use and improve their design (and let the original designer then build on the improvements).

The perception is that if someone builds a copy or improved design, they are 'stealing' from the original designer.

So how do we either change this perception so that it's accepted that people can sell improved versions of something, or figure out how to allow enough sharing of the designs to see improvements while still compensating the original designer?

The problem with trying to 'pay the designer' is how are you going to figure out who and how much to pay to all the people who contribute to a design. Unlike software where you can directly apply patches to the source code, you can't send patches for CAD files. You can design a modification to a part, or come up with a new method of manufacturing something (which could be as 'simple' as re-ordering the operations involved), but these changes can't be distributed as easy-to-attribute patches. The value of the different changes is also hard to determine, sometimes the smallest changes make the biggest differences in manufacturing costs.

Think of the mess that there would be if RedHat had to take 1% of the sale price of it's products and distribute it 'fairly' to the programmers who wrote the code that it's shipping. The 1% wouldn't kill the business, but the overhead of figuring out who to pay, and lawsuits from people (or their heirs) who don't think that they got paid enough, would be enough to shut down even a billion dollar company like RedHat, and if such rules had been in place from the beginning, companies like RedHat would never have gotten off the ground.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 28, 2015 22:14 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (6 responses)

I don't think that characterizes the central problem properly. The problem is not that Joe gets upset, or that Joe deserved to be paid. At least, Joe gets no sympathy from me in this scenario - it's not a problem I care about.

The problem is that Joe doesn't design the thing (hardware or software) in the first place, so no one ever gets to use it. He doesn't design it because he knows he will have to spend his own money to do it, and the users will not pay him back. He knows they won't pay him back because competition from Bill will drive the price down to a level that pays only for the cost of implementation (so for software, close to zero). Nothing left over to cover the design.

We (the public) grant monopolies to inventors, including big bad corporations, entirely out of selfishness.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 28, 2015 22:48 UTC (Sat) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (5 responses)

If Joe isn't willing to share his design, nothing is forcing him to. But we believe that the world is going to be a better place if he does.

In software we have the exact same thing. Programmers can write their software and only sell the resulting binaries without sharing the source and allowing others to use it.

In the maker space, the same thing can be done. People can design things and only sell the resulting products.

But OpenSource software says that from a pragmatic point of view (not just and idealist point of view), everyone, including the initial programmer, is better off if the source code is shared and many people are allowed to use and improve it.

There are a lot of people who are puzzled how anyone can make money with FOSS software, and those same people are puzzled how anyone can make money in the maker spaces if they share their designs.

In the maker space it's especially annoying to see a company initially have an open design product, get suggestions and improvements from their user community, and then make the next version of the product be a closed design. This is the equivalent to a company having a work released under the GPL with a contributer copyright assignment and then releasing the next version under a proprietary-only license. It's legal, but a company that does this with software will earn a huge amount of ill will, and companies that do this with maker devices earn the same ill will.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 2, 2015 10:25 UTC (Mon) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link] (4 responses)

There are a lot of people who are puzzled how anyone can make money with FOSS software

Interestingly, the canonical example for this is RedHat - who actually don't make money from the software, they make money from services related to the software. Is there a "service-like" business model for "maker products"?

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 2, 2015 14:21 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (3 responses)

Off the top of my head, I can think of 3D print services (e.g., my printer isn't big enough) and QA testing.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 2, 2015 19:25 UTC (Mon) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (2 responses)

design assistance/review (i.e. why doesn't this work, how could this design be optimized, how can I produce this shape)

service of printers "it's not working, ship it in for service"

Ongoing improvements of the design, resulting in "upgrade kits", which they will happily install for you if you ship your printer to them.

3D print services
for volume (I need 500 of these, not 2, so I can't do that all with my printer)
for precision (my printer at home is not as precise as it could be, fine for a prototype, but not for a finished product)
for special materials (rather than having to buy a full roll of every color, or of the specialty filiments when I only need a little of it, they have it all in stock and I get charged for what I use)

I'm sure that others can come up with additional ideas.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 3, 2015 10:42 UTC (Tue) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link] (1 responses)

I admit I don't understand. I suppose you mean that the maker has a 3D printer and she creates a design, then releases the design for free. If I have a 3D printer, I can print it. If I don't have it, I can go to a local shop to print it. If I need 500, I can probably ask some Chinese sweatshop to print it for half price than the local shop or the author of the design. I don't see any cases where the maker actually makes any money out of the design.

Servicing 3D printers can be done without making any designs, so I don't see how relevant is that.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 4, 2015 7:02 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

3D printers are still finicky and who is better qualified to run and tweak them to get optimal results than the people who designed them?

As for service, the company that designed them (and sells them) is going to have the right parts around, and have more expertise in troubleshooting that particular design than some generic repair center seeing this model of 3D printer for the first time.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 5, 2015 3:43 UTC (Thu) by gwg (guest, #20811) [Link] (5 responses)

A design without being prototyped and tested is like software that has been written and never compiled or debugged. And prototyping, testing and making something manufacturable is not cheap - CRO's, logic analizers, PCB runs & assembly, RFI testing etc. have noticeable capital costs that software development doesn't have.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 5, 2015 4:07 UTC (Thu) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (4 responses)

unless you _exactly_ duplicate the item, with the same parts and exactly the same manufacturing process, all that work needs to be done for any derived versions of a product as well.

Just change a couple components and it can cascade into all the work of a new design.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 5, 2015 11:13 UTC (Thu) by gwg (guest, #20811) [Link]

Once a design is proven (i.e. the software equivalent of "compiled, run & debugged"), a lot less work is needed, even if you feel the need to repackage it.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 5, 2015 16:32 UTC (Thu) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] (2 responses)

An example of this is bluetooth modules: https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/3rd-Party-Bluetooth-S... and https://www.google.com/search?q=csr+bluetooth+module

The biggest expense in bluetooth design is all the RF: compliance, antenna tuning, PCB impedance matching, etc. All this NRE basically rules out low-volume devices unless they're very expensive.

However, you can buy a module that has already been designed, tested, and certified, and reflow it onto your board like any other component. It costs at least twice as much as the bare part, but it works very quickly and your engineers can move on to more important things.

Heck, I don't think it will be long before we see an entire access point on a module: ARM7 ram, flash, USB, 30mm^2 for a few bucks. Drop it into your design and ship in volume. Bringup will be measured in hours and not weeks. Can't wait.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 5, 2015 17:48 UTC (Thu) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link] (1 responses)

The Spark Photon (P0 model) or just the WiFi module they're using (http://www.cnblogs.com/shangdawei/p/3485122.html) is very close to this. It is a bit bigger though - a little over 100mm^2.

Makers and open source

Posted Mar 6, 2015 3:38 UTC (Fri) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

Ah, I didn't realize the Photon was based on WICED. Two layers of abstraction, very cool.

Still too expensive though. For now.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 11:26 UTC (Fri) by mordae (guest, #54701) [Link]

Just to get you in the picture, we have owned a "professional" 3D printer sold to us by people who lied to us about it's origin. They claimed that the device have been designed by them and that it is running a proprietary controller code.

When we learned that they just used open another commercial printer design with a GPL firmware (watched the serial link chatter), we demanded the source code. They started being aggressive and eventually disgusted us enough to return the device.

This is not about effectiveness of production and other honourable things, this is about shitty people taking something made with love, trying only to make some money off it as fast as possible. The only other thing you can do is to share your designs for non-commercial use and actively sue people in different countries. Which is hard.

It's the same issue as with the open source code. Some people understand why it makes sense, some do not. In the end, the incentives are skewed towards being competitive instead of cooperation.

Makers and open source

Posted Feb 27, 2015 15:42 UTC (Fri) by etienne (guest, #25256) [Link]

> many of the same problems that the open-source community solved ten years ago.

I did not noticed those problems have been solved, we have seen struggling developers for main parts of the GPL software, we are seeing companies forbidding Linux users to upstream bug fixes, we are not seeing an increase of developers/testers following a massive increase of users...

But for hardware based on microcontroller, it is even worse: the day you go in production (far east) (with the needed hardware self test software and all extra bits to reliably build something) - it is the day you begin to be copied, the factory may produce thousands but delay the delivery to your order of 200 - because they need to sell "their own ones" first...

Raspberry Pi is _not_ Open Hardware (re: Makers and open source)

Posted Feb 28, 2015 1:26 UTC (Sat) by pdp7 (guest, #21345) [Link]

From the article:
> And there are examples of successful open hardware
> closely tied to the open-source software world. The
> Raspberry Pi, she said, has been cloned and modified
> and duplicated many times

No model of Raspberry Pi is Open Hardware. The Raspberry Pi Foundation has only ever released PDF schematics.

Open Hardware [1] indicates the that the complete design files for the hardware have been released under an Open Source license. For electronics, design files must include the source/editable files for the schematic, PCB layout and Bill of Materials (BOM).

The Open Source Hardware Association (OSHWA) has a helpful list of Best Practices for sharing a hardware design:
http://www.oshwa.org/sharing-best-practices/

cheers,
drew

[1] Open Hardware and Open Source Hardware are used interchangeably by many in the Open Source Hardware community. There is the Open Source Hardware Association while the annual conference is called the Open Hardware Summit: http://www.oshwa.org/research/brief-history-of-open-sourc...

Trademarks

Posted Mar 5, 2015 13:26 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

Seem to get lumped into other Intellectual Property and the assumption all too often is "trademarks are bad" (as seems to have been made here).

Actually, trademarks are the easiest of all Intellectual Property to justify, because misuse of trademarks is fraud pure and simple. Forget what the law says about permissible use etc etc, the SOLE purpose of trademarks is reassure the ?paying? customer that they are getting what they paid for. They have no value beyond that.

The purpose of trademarks is to stop me from pretending to be you, such that I profit from your good name (and probably drag your name through the mud in the process). Look at the history of the "Robber Barons" and NCR for an example of such behaviour :-(

Trademarks aren't an infringement of liberty - sadly they are a necessity if you want to do fair and honest business ... :-(

Cheers,
Wol

Trademarks

Posted Mar 5, 2015 14:00 UTC (Thu) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]

Trademarks, *reasonably applied* satisfy everything you mentioned, and is indeed important.

But granting Trademarks for generic terms, or even similar sounding terms -- even if the party found to be infringing is doing it on purpose -- shouldn't be acceptable.

I cannot accept the thought that Apple should be able to stop anyone from naming a tech-product anything starting with an i, for instance.

Trademarks

Posted Mar 8, 2015 21:28 UTC (Sun) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]

I agree in general, but over the last decade or so I've seen more and more abuse of trademarks - for example, to enforce cross-border price discrimination by filing a trademark suit against people importing (non-counterfeit) jeans from non-EU countries to Britain.


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