The Debian init system general resolution returns [LWN.net]

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 20, 2014 17:15 UTC (Mon) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]

Great initiative! I hope they go ahead and take all the whiners along with them.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 20, 2014 20:26 UTC (Mon) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link] (2 responses)

Hint: 'vs' is short for 'versus', not 'vice'. It means 'against', in Latin.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 9:48 UTC (Tue) by jb.1234abcd (guest, #95827) [Link] (1 responses)

The "vice" is special :-)

http://www.muylinux.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/funny-...

jb

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 14:20 UTC (Tue) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link]

I've been resisting the temptation to post that! Now I can relax. :)

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 20, 2014 22:24 UTC (Mon) by louie (guest, #3285) [Link]

forkfedora.org too! No points for guessing which one boils down to "get off my lawn" and which one looks like a system I want to administer c. 2014.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 0:44 UTC (Tue) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (8 responses)

That's going nowhere. The people pushing that admit upfront that they don't have the time and energy to get involved as Debian Developers who would have a say on the GR vote, so there's no way they're going to have the time and energy to maintain a fork.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 1:00 UTC (Tue) by louie (guest, #3285) [Link] (7 responses)

I'm really amused by the people asking on debian-vote if "this time" users will be able to vote. You're definitely a long-time, dedicated Debian user if... you can't even be bothered to know how Debian makes decisions.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 1:54 UTC (Tue) by mgb (guest, #3226) [Link] (6 responses)

> I'm really amused by the people asking on debian-vote if "this time" users will be able to vote

"We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. We will place their interests first in our priorities."
[Debian Social Contract]

Debian's users are highlighting the disconnect between the Debian Social Contract and the TC's pushing systemd über alles despite the objections of users. Indeed one member of the TC now seems to be actively censoring users' objections in debian-user.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 2:58 UTC (Tue) by misc (subscriber, #73730) [Link] (1 responses)

A disconnect going back to the creation of Debian. If people did really believed the constitution with checking what was meant behind the words and how it was done in practice, they are kinda naive.

The fun part is that some ask for a vote of users without making any proposal on what is exactly a user. Would Ubuntu users get a vote ? Would Spotify or HP, heavy Debian users get a vote for every people in the company, or every server ? Would I get 4 votes if the family computer of me and my boyfriend and our 2 adopted childs is running Debian ? What about if I have a arm board somewhere ?

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 24, 2014 5:08 UTC (Fri) by csirac2 (guest, #99520) [Link]

systemd requires a Linux kernel 3.7 or newer, which actually means the "universal operating system" won't run on a vast number of embedded/headless ARM boards. More links in my other comment http://lwn.net/Articles/617873/

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 4:55 UTC (Tue) by louie (guest, #3285) [Link]

Users are of course important, but there is also no doubt who "we" are in that sentence - to steal a phrase, "we" are Developers, Developers, Developers. And so it has always been. That is deeply enshrined not just in Debian's processes, but Debian's written constitution. I haven't used Debian in over a decade, and I know that; it is pretty hard to use Debian for any length of time without figuring that out.

So for someone to claim they are a Deeply Committed Debian User and also to have no clue who votes in Debian GRs, what the reasons are for that, how impossible it would be to change... it suggests they aren't actually all a very Committed Debian User. (Same with all the Very Concerned Debian Users at debianfork.org, who are willing to put in so much work that... none of them are DDs.)

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 5:48 UTC (Tue) by edomaur (subscriber, #14520) [Link] (1 responses)

I am a user, and I don't object to systemd.

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 10:49 UTC (Tue) by jwakely (subscriber, #60262) [Link]

Then you're obviously not a *true* scotsman^Wuser

The Debian init system general resolution returns

Posted Oct 21, 2014 10:06 UTC (Tue) by jezuch (subscriber, #52988) [Link]

> Debian's users are highlighting the disconnect between the Debian Social Contract and the TC's pushing systemd über alles despite the objections of users.

Which users? Those who shout the loudest, or those that are happy with Debian's choices and can't be bothered to shout as loud "I AM HAPPY!"? Vocal minorities tend to create, deliberately, an impression that they are representative of the entire community. But that's just dishonest. And no, we who are happy with systemd are not sheeple and this is not a case of silent acquiescence of millions.

For the record: I AM HAPPY! [Even though currently systemd doesn't boot my machine at home. But do I really have to be disgusted and spew hateful drivel because of that? It's just software, for goodness sake.]