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command line tool deprecations

command line tool deprecations

Posted Aug 7, 2014 16:16 UTC (Thu) by DonDiego (guest, #24141)
In reply to: command line tool deprecations by rsidd
Parent article: Reconsidering ffmpeg in Debian

> > Libav moved to an incompatible command line syntax but kept a wrapper tool with the old syntax and the old name for a transition period. It is perfectly normal for such a compatibility wrapper to warn that its availability into the future is limited and what its replacement is.

> It is not normal to do that when the unforked program with the same name still exists. It is as if LibreOffice forked OpenOffice (for perfectly good reasons), kept around the "ooffice" binary (again for perfectly good reasons of compatibility), but if you typed "ooffice", warned that OpenOffice was "deprecated" -- even though Apache OpenOffice was alive and well and making releases, despite admittedly being dormant earlier.

The program printed a deprecation message because the command line syntax changed, scripts might need to get updated, etc. This was not a case of just symlinking the two names.

Why do keep insisting that a simple heads-up message to users was done out of malice to spite a competing project?

Also note that "ffmpeg" (lowercase, command line program) is not equal to "FFmpeg" (mixed case, project name). While this might seem silly and inconsequential to you, nobody in either community confuses the two names.

> > Yes, this Coca Cola was not produced by Pepsi.

> Since you bring up that analogy (and ignoring questions of trademarks) -- it is as if Pepsi forked from Coca Cola, produced a "similar" product called Coca Cola for a while, and then told people who asked for coke that "Coca Cola is deprecated and will be removed in the future".

You argue from the asssumption that one of the two sides of the split is the original and the other is the fork. This is not the case here. Both sides claim to be the legitimate successors of the original FFmpeg project. Who forked who is very much disputed.

> > maybe you should also go look at the other side [libavresample]

> First, if other people act like jerks that doesn't mean you need to act like one.

Of course not, but you act as if one side is misbehaving here while the other side is not.

> Second, ffmpeg (unlike libavsample) is meant to be used by end-users and it is unlikely that end-users will see the message you quote on the issue tracker page.

So telling users that they may need to adapt to a new tool syntax is not OK, but telling developers that a library is unmaintained and should not be used is OK?


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command line tool deprecations

Posted Aug 7, 2014 22:16 UTC (Thu) by ldarby (guest, #41318) [Link] (4 responses)

> Why do keep insisting that a simple heads-up message to users was done out of malice to spite a competing project?

Because that's precisely what it looks like to people outside your community.

command line tool deprecations

Posted Aug 7, 2014 22:37 UTC (Thu) by DonDiego (guest, #24141) [Link] (3 responses)

> > Why do keep insisting that a simple heads-up message to users was done out of malice to spite a competing project?

> Because that's precisely what it looks like to people outside your community.

Well, appearances can be deceiving.

command line tool deprecations

Posted Aug 8, 2014 17:52 UTC (Fri) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (2 responses)

Let's assume the message in question wasn't written out of passive-aggressive spite, which is how most onlookers appear to have interpreted it. Let's also assume that libav doesn't want to join AOO and Xfree86 in the "how not to do PR" history book.

In this version of reality it would be a no-brainer to just quietly remove the offending message than to continue trying to justify it with increasingly ridiculous excuses. The damage to libav's reputation stops, new users turning to Google for a straight answer don't have to inadvertently discover that one Ubuntu bug or the entire bloody history of the libav project's existence. The project wouldn't even need to issue a public apology for causing confusion over this; people would just forget after a while.

But those are pretty huge and baseless assumptions, I'll admit.

command line tool deprecations

Posted Aug 8, 2014 21:21 UTC (Fri) by DonDiego (guest, #24141) [Link] (1 responses)

The message is long gone along with the compatibility wrapper program. It is only present in a very old release that receives nothing but critical bug fixes every once in a while. The developers only care about Git HEAD.

I'll be glad to hear your alternative wording suggestions. Make it express that the ffmpeg command line program has been deprecated in favor of the avconv command line program due to incompatible command line syntax improvements.

command line tool deprecations

Posted Aug 8, 2014 21:24 UTC (Fri) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

I think "The ffmpeg command line program has been deprecated in favor of the avconv command line program due to incompatible command line syntax improvements.", with no obnoxious shouty caps, expresses that concept very well.


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