What's in a (CentOS) version number?
What's in a (CentOS) version number?
Posted Jun 12, 2014 19:36 UTC (Thu) by johannbg (guest, #65743)In reply to: What's in a (CentOS) version number? by jspaleta
Parent article: What's in a (CentOS) version number?
Posted Jun 12, 2014 20:21 UTC (Thu)
by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
[Link] (2 responses)
I'm not even disagreeing with the soundness of the idea. History is full of examples of very intelligent people coming up with very good ideas but not having the skills or the interest necessary organize or influence the correct group of people to work to make it happen. Thankfully you didn't go so far as to file a detailed business method patent as part of your thorough calculation when doing the Pro bono benefit analysis on behalf of the CentOS community. Thank you for showing that much restraint, so as to not be an insurmountable hurdle for others to implement a similar idea months later, when they finally get around to catching up with you.
I believe the phrase is "an idea ahead of its time".. which again is exactly the sort of thing I would expect to see proposed again and again from a skynet android sent from the future. But what do I know, I'm just a self-aware AI from the matrix.
Credit where credit is due, you came up with the idea as far as I can tell. Good for you. I will think about spinning up a fedora badge to honor such impressive prescient thinking moving forward. It's really is an oversight that such effort goes completely unrewarded. Never again.
The only thing I find moderately distasteful is this propensity to jump to conspiracy theories and implication of some sort of behind the scenes strong arming of motivation because other people are moving at a more deliberate speed in implementing a more nuanced plan of action on a timescale slower than you would like to see.
The issue isn't just about where EPEL lives, that's just a part of the question. The issue really is how does CentOS get structured such that CentOS can build a contributor space which is attractive enough to drain as much of the swamp of overlapping/conflicting addon repositories as possible and make it easier to give users the layer cake they seem to want in practice.
Ironically pushing for an EPEL centric merger quickly, as you have proposed here in LWN in January, and seem to still be a proponent of now, smacks as exactly the sort of heavy handed corporate interest interactions that you'd rather not see. It's only because you thought of it that you want to see it done in a rush, without building stakeholder buy-in from inside the CentOS community itself.
Personally, I'm really much happier to see CentOS think about what they want to achieve with expanded resource support from shadowdaddy, without that discussion being dominated by insistent calls to rush EPEL under the CentOS banner. At the end of the process CentOS might come up with a structure where both EPEL and CentOS Extras as they exists today just do not map coherently and will disappear as recognizable distinct things inside the CentOS branded binary content space. Which is where I think they are headed with their variants idea.
-jef
Posted Jun 12, 2014 21:01 UTC (Thu)
by johannbg (guest, #65743)
[Link] (1 responses)
Now this was not "an idea ahead of its time" from my point of view since I have always failed to see the purpose of EPEL being a part of Fedora in the first place and never been silent about that point of view of mine since it's sole existence is to overcome limitation in RHEL dont get me wrong I can see the convenience in it for people maintaining components both in Fedora and EPEL and the gain Red Hat has from it,
It's the same view I share with the "Software Collection" that Red Hat manage to push into the Fedora project to overcome limitation that did not exist in the project to begin with from my perspective.
Now my so called conspiracy theories is just based on responses I received from Red Hat employees as well as community members when mentioning this possible future for EPEL in various places.
Anyway less about me more about EPEL where I have to agree with you on the point where distributions like CentOS was and Scientific Linux still is, that arguably there should never have existed nor should exist in the future the distinction of community maintained components from their src rebuilds.
Posted Jun 12, 2014 21:45 UTC (Thu)
by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
[Link]
It's difficult to judge the conclusions you are drawing without some modicum of public record from which to read for myself. I'm disinclined to believe you without at least one public record conversation to review. So please, if you are going to refer to conversations with red hat employees, please provide the public record citation to them so I can verify they happened and the things you said were said were said.
Protip, if you are going to make it a habit of talking trash about policy decisions happening across a corporate fenceline, you really need to make sure your conversations with key people you are in disagreement with are happen in the public record as much as possible. If you are going out of your way to have...disagreements..in private conversations.. and then taking those disagreements into public forums (like here), that's a bit uncool and doesn't really help substantiate your policy argument or grow wider support for your opinion (even if you have the better reasoning).
It's generally not a good idea to reference private conversations, unless of course, your goal is to just besmirch reputations and you really don't care about seeing policy decisions changed.
That's not your goal right? You are still trying to have a positive impact on policy direction right? Contrary to your last statement that you believe that as individuals you and I are both powerless to have a positive influence, right? That was just silly talk. Of course you are still endeavoring to have a positive influence, your just doing it wrong, terribly terribly wrong. That previous statement was just your defensive cynicism talking earlier as a batter you with my indomitable rhetoric. Sorry about that. And we all now inside every cynic there's just a disappointed idealist underneath. But once we surgically remove your idealism and replace it with synthetic lab grown pragmatism, you'll be feel much better about everything.
-jef
What's in a (CentOS) version number?
What's in a (CentOS) version number?
What's in a (CentOS) version number?