FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women [LWN.net]

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 24, 2014 18:25 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Both awards richly deserved, IMHO.

(I note that Vernor Vinge is listed as being on the award committee twice. I guess this was a typo and he didn't actually have twice as many votes as anyone else.)

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 24, 2014 23:21 UTC (Mon) by motk (guest, #51120) [Link] (1 responses)

Well done mjg, and well deserved.

mjg59, hooray!

Posted Apr 2, 2014 12:40 UTC (Wed) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]

My two cents that might be worth reading to estimate efforts by Matthew and friends a little bit better: UEFI SecureBoot mini-HOWTO (note that writing this from experience was apparently nowhere near wading through all the specs along with discrepancies/bugs and writing the actual code).

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 0:56 UTC (Tue) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (22 responses)

I read this, at first, as that Matt got the award for his work on UEFI and for the Outreach Program for Women, and believed it. What can't Matt do?

Instead, we should note that Karen Sandler and Marina Zhurakhinskaya accepted the latter award, and remember their names with respect.

That said, other efforts aimed at attracting women from outside into technical fields ill-serve those women, and us. STEM fields are badly overcrowded, with over half of technically-trained Americans (male and, moreso, female) now doing something else because their prospects in the field they studied are so bad. Low enrollments and participation by women are a supremely rational response to the economic environment, just as improving conditions in the '80s (sadly temporary) coincided with an enrollment surge. We might better try to discourage boys' economically irrational interest in tech which serves them poorly in later life.

People in tech fields, female and male, naturalized and native, have been under economic attack for decades. What is there about being "in a computer field" (as it says in the statute) that makes us, uniquely, not deserve overtime pay? Why are we uniquely targeted with a special immigration program ("H1B") to bring in foreign competition? Employers insist they couldn't find help without the program, but the low salaries they offer to H1B beneficiaries and locals alike belie that claim. NSA and its contractors, forbidden H1B staff, find local help easily by offering a little more.

I do not suggest we try to drive girls away from tech, or bar immigrating techies. The hole we're in is just plenty deep enough without digging it deeper.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 4:30 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (7 responses)

I won the H1B lottery. I got to work for a well-known company and was paid as much as my local co-workers, and that was significantly more than I could have earned by continuing in an academic career in the UK[1]. I wasn't used to drive down wages and then sent back to my home country at the end of my visa. I wasn't overworked. I've rarely done 50 hour weeks. I live a lifestyle that's completely incommensurate with the amount of effort I put into it.

I'm lucky. My life isn't typical even amongst high quality free software developers. I'm not going to deny that this is an industry that chews up many promising young developers and then discards them. We should be open and honest about that, and make it clear to those promising young developers that tying yourself to this career is nowhere near as straightforward and glamorous as the current popular perception.

But at the same time, we should ensure that we discourage people equally. Those who can't be discouraged should be accepted equally. If someone is going to make an informed decision to subject themselves to all the bullshit that our industry involves, we should do everything we can to make sure they have the same chances as anyone else making the same choice. It may not work out for them, but if it doesn't let's make sure that it's because of the industry in general rather than because they're female or queer or black or foreign or anything else that marks them out as different to the status quo.

[1] Academia offered me more holiday time, but the difference in salary was basically enough that I could probably have negotiated working 3 days a week and still come out ahead financially. I'm not sure whether this says more about software or academia.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 7:12 UTC (Tue) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (6 responses)

Whatever the political and socioeconomic motivations behind the H1B program, we have all benefitted, collectively, far more from Matt's activities than he has personally, easily overwhelming any incremental downward pressure he may exert on U.S. salaries by his addition to the the local talent pool. There is no way to know if he would have served us all just as well working in the UK, but it is easy to believe he has done better personally here. I count many H1B winners as friends, and would never begrudge him, them, or anyone else coming to the U.S., by any route, whatever benefit they can derive from it.

Likewise, any woman native or foreign who, despite everything, finds a way to earn a living doing tech here is more than welcome to it. I would much much rather see opportunities and salaries grow to match the influx than to have anyone locked out for any reason. In previous generations, people formed unions to make pay commensurate with value. I don't know what makes that option no longer viable.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 7:23 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (4 responses)

> In previous generations, people formed unions to make pay commensurate with value. I don't know what makes that option no longer viable.

the large number of employers makes that unviable.

As does the ease of finding new workers (no matter what the companies say about how hard it is)

Also, the difficulty in defining what workers are 'equivalent' to each other

While a college degree is not quite mandatory in the field, it's very strongly preferred, what unions do you know of that are made up mostly of college graduates?

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 7:55 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (3 responses)

Teachers' union?

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 14:14 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (2 responses)

good point, I forgot about them.

on the other hand, what is people's opinion of that union? my take is that it's viewed as much as a tool to restrict who can teach as any benefit for the public.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 14:45 UTC (Tue) by Kluge (subscriber, #2881) [Link]

There's no question that there are lots of restrictions on who can teach in public schools that probably exclude worthy applicants. And the unions probably make it harder to get rid of bad teachers.

On the other hand, given that education "reformers" in the US seem mainly interested in blaming teachers for all the problems of an insanely complicated and dysfunctional system and breaking their unions, I'm sympathetic to their need to desire to protect themselves from efforts to decrease their salaries or job security.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 16:08 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

Whether the Union itself is corrupt is a whole 'nother kettle of fish but I would say that it is a symptom of the same apathy that allows elected representatives in government to run amok, a Union is as corrupt as its membership allows and tolerates in the same way that a government is or any actual democratic institution.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 14:46 UTC (Tue) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

Organizing unions requires "peoples skill" which software developers (supposed to) lack? I'm not sure about the US situation, but in this part of the world software developers are payed maybe 2-4 times the average pay, so organizing a union for them would sound quite elitist for the rest of the population.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 14:38 UTC (Tue) by Kluge (subscriber, #2881) [Link] (12 responses)

Low salaries? When locals still earn substantially more than their counterparts in Inda and China? How can that be? Won't someone think of the employers? /sarcasm

>What is there about being "in a computer field" (as it says in the statute) that makes us, uniquely, not deserve overtime pay?

In fairness, as I understand it, overtime exemptions apply to a number of employee categories. From http://www.safranlaw.com/safranlawblog/2014/3/14/presiden..., if the employee earns at least $455/week (only $23,660 a year!) and one of the following applies, they are exempt:

-The employee’s job duties are directly related to the employer’s business; or
-The employee’s job duties directly relate to the general business operations of his or her employer or employer’s clients; or
-The employee’s position requires specialized academic training for entry into a professional field; or
-The employee is in a computer field of business; or
-The employee is making sales away from his or her employer’s place of business; or
-The employee is in a recognized field of artistic or creative endeavor.

In other words, if you're making an even minimally adequate wage and you actually do something worthwhile for your employer, you're exempt.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 16:21 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (9 responses)

> In other words, if you're making an even minimally adequate wage and you actually do something worthwhile for your employer, you're exempt

That's maybe a little harsh, it seems that the list you provided breaks down into a few catagories such as:

- management, consultants, people who control the purse strings
- people paid on commission
- people who bill a flat rate per project

And then the oddballs,

- computers? (this was done to promote growth in the industry but it is really a tacit approval of labor practices that were largely abolished in the 19th century)
- professionals? (are they presumed to bill hourly or own their business, or the fact that they have professional certification means they are on a better footing to command their own work conditions and compensation?)

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 19:10 UTC (Tue) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (3 responses)

It largely breaks down into groups that do or don't have effective union lobby representation. Unions have never fought for overtime pay in fields without a union. With unions crushed, "exemption" will only grow.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 26, 2014 17:19 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (2 responses)

While I view unions as a good thing on the whole, there are extremes at which they are no longer great. For example, I worked a summer job where I was required to become a union member. By the time my 3 months were up, I had just paid off the dues (~$1000 IIRC; somewhere between ¼ and ⅓ of my net pay; I *think* I was taxed for that $1000 as well, but I was under the minimums that year, so I got everything back anyways) and after that…well, I was done there. I got a 50¢ withdrawal card so that I never need to pay the dues again if the need arises (forget that and you're out another grand if you need to "join" again). Forced labor is bad, but forced unionizing is also bad (and the workers dais that the efficiency requirements were steadily going up over the years without a matching pay raise).

forced to join?

Posted Apr 10, 2014 9:55 UTC (Thu) by alex (subscriber, #1355) [Link] (1 responses)

I thought closed shops where illegal these days?

forced to join?

Posted Apr 10, 2014 14:49 UTC (Thu) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

A quick poke around on the internet suggests the situation is this:

Closed shops per se (where you have to be a member of the union to get hired at all) were banned in the USA in 1947 with the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act.
Union shops (where paying union dues is a condition of continued employment, even if you decline to join the union) are still legal in US states that have not passed right-to-work laws.

(There are some slight wrinkles to the above.)

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 26, 2014 14:59 UTC (Wed) by Kluge (subscriber, #2881) [Link] (4 responses)

> That's maybe a little harsh, it seems that the list you provided breaks down into a few catagories
> such as:
> - management, consultants, people who control the purse strings
> - people paid on commission
> - people who bill a flat rate per project
> And then the oddballs,

In practice, I think you're generally right. As far as I know, employees outside of the IT, sales, and supervisory categories are generally paid an hourly wage with overtime. The point I was trying to make is that the statutory categories for exemption seem extremely broad. After all, except for janitorial staff, if an "employee’s job duties are directly related to the employer’s business" or "directly relate to the general business operations of his or her employer or employer’s clients", why are they employed at all?

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 26, 2014 15:05 UTC (Wed) by Kluge (subscriber, #2881) [Link] (1 responses)

To clarify, I meant to say that if an employee's duties *aren't* directly related to the business of the employer or their clients, why are they employed?

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 26, 2014 17:13 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

It's actually more along the lines that if the employee is in a decision making role they are exempt, and most IT folks end up qualifying for this.

I think this category was originally intended to cover management, but was written broadly enough that IT folks who evaluate and recommend products end up falling in it, and there aren't that many IT folks who don't

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 26, 2014 17:21 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

And not everyone in IT/software engineering is salaried. While I don't get OT pay increases, I do get paid for the hours I work.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 26, 2014 18:48 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

Agreed, not everyone is. But there is a strong management push in most companies to drive people that way (because it avoids the complications that working late or being oncall generate)

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 18:01 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

This is a good way of getting work done "on the cheap". Someone mentioned teachers ... well, my daughter is a teacher ...

Teacher bashing is alive and well. "They work 9 til 3:30, get loads of holiday and free time, and are well paid". The last of those may be true, but trust me, they earn it! Going by the stats in the Daily Wail (yes I know...) I calculated that they get 2 MINUTES per pupil per week to mark homework (of which they are encouraged to hand out loads). If they spend the bulk of the school holidays preparing next term's lessons, that works out at half an hour to prepare an hour's lesson - not really enough at all.

My daughter is at her desk at 7am. She often doesn't leave school until 8pm or even later.

Divide her salary by the hours she actually works, and I think it came out pretty close to minimum wage - and no way is she on the bottom end of the salary scale!

Cheers,
Wol

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 19:33 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

Quite a lot of professionals are not exempt. One big example: nurses. They have strictly paid overtime, even though they fall under several categories.

And it's also a great example of union bargaining power - nurse unions are very much alive.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 18:27 UTC (Tue) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

> Instead, we should note that Karen Sandler and Marina Zhurakhinskaya
> accepted the latter award, and remember their names with respect.

I'm guessing the announcement stuck with the name of the project because the whole project won the prize, not any two individuals, so the respectful way to congratulate the project, was to congratulate the project.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 4:01 UTC (Tue) by keeperofdakeys (guest, #82635) [Link]

Matthew gave a rather enlightening talk about UEFI at the 2012 Linux Conf Au. It's worth a watch if you haven't seen it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2aq5M3Q76U, "EFI and Linux: the future is here, and it's awful".

Note that this was two years ago, and things have improved a bit since then.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 14:44 UTC (Tue) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link] (3 responses)

Regarding outreaching women into tech fields and FOSS.

One very honest and very sincere question:

I've worked for multiple years for Proprietary-Tech-Giant_0, where women were (in my own assessment) a minority but still a substantial fraction of the engineering work force. Then I changed jobs and worked (for multiple years) for Well-Known-Foss-Company, and there were (in my own informal assessment) no women in engineering whatsoever. At least none that I would come in contact with.

Since mid last year I changed jobs again, now to Proprietary-Tech-Giant_1, and guess what? There are plenty of female engineers in all teams I come in contact with.

Does my personal anecdotal experience/assessment matches that of other LWN readers? Are women indeed even less represented in FOSS companies than in proprietary companies, or is my personal experience simply not that representative?

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 17:12 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (2 responses)

My observation if that percentage of females is related to the size of companies: small companies usually don't have any female engineers at all while giants have sizable percentage. FOSS companies are just smaller in general.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 18:52 UTC (Tue) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (1 responses)

That, and Free Software outfits hire from the Free Software developer pool, which adds lots more bias.

At my current employer, co-founded by a woman, small but not a FS outfit, we have no women in the core engineering team despite actively seeking them out. We have some in QA, and have had a few doing web app development. It's a problem, but the problem seems entirely upstream, unless our HR staff (all women, as it happens) are filtering them out.

FSF gives awards to Matthew Garrett, Outreach Program for Women

Posted Mar 25, 2014 20:09 UTC (Tue) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

Well, in a study about attributing wages to new hires, women got offered less than men (regrettable but expected), but what surprised me is that women had more of an anti-women bias than the men did!

http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/09/28/1824231/sexism...

So an all-woman HR department might not be helpful. (Of course, this isn't the main factor, not by a long shot, but I found it interesting that it's not even part of the solution.)