A longstanding GnuTLS certificate validation botch

Posted Mar 12, 2014 3:28 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106)
In reply to: A longstanding GnuTLS certificate validation botch by pizza
Parent article: A longstanding GnuTLS certificate validation botch

> I believe the point nybble41 was attempting to make is that test-driven development (and other such "modern" ideas) is independent of the underlying language used.

I think you meant "ms-tg" rather than "nybble41".

While I agree that these concepts are equally applicable to any language, even C, my point was that the proper choice of language can significantly reduce the testing burden by making stricter guarantees regarding the behavior of the program at compile-time. Speaking as someone who works with system-level C code on FAA-certified embedded systems, C just give you way too much rope to hang yourself with, and it shows in the amount of testing required to obtain full coverage.

As for not being able to do "system/low-level tasks" in high-level languages, I think the authors of House[1] and Kinetic[2] would disagree. While these two OS projects are not written entirely in Haskell, neither is the Linux kernel written entirely in C. Certain core operations require lower-level access to the system, via C and/or assembly, but drivers, network stacks, window systems, and command shells seem "low-level" and "system" enough to me.

[1] http://ogi.altocumulus.org/~hallgren/ICFP2005/house.pdf
[2] http://intoverflow.wordpress.com/kinetic/

A longstanding GnuTLS certificate validation botch

Posted Mar 12, 2014 17:50 UTC (Wed) by ms-tg (subscriber, #89231) [Link]

> While I agree that these concepts are equally applicable
> to any language, even C, my point was that the proper
> choice of language can significantly reduce the testing
> burden

Considering the *vast* quantity of C language code that makes up the modern software stack which was developed outside the culture of unit testing, can't I please persuade you (and others reading, perhaps) that by putting your language suggestions on a separate track, the community might optimize its efforts to introduce test coverage the vast bulk of our linux software?

For example, I suspect that the reason "C culture" seems impervious to adopting the lessons of test-driven development has a lot to do with the masses of developers who are interested in it, by following your advice, are moving to other languages and practicing it there.

In other words, by complecting the issue of unit testing and test coverage with the choice of language, are we not actively *contributing* to the continuing absence of these ideas from C culture, and thus from the bulk of our existing systems?

Food for thought, at least, I hope!