Which init system for Debian?
Which init system for Debian?
Posted Nov 12, 2013 3:14 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313)In reply to: Which init system for Debian? by anselm
Parent article: Which init system for Debian?
As for other distros that don't want to offer multiple options, I would say that people who want something not in their distro are the ones who should change to a different distro rather than the ones who want things to keep working.
your positioning of people who are happy with things as they are as the 'fringe' is not conclusive to calm discussion
Posted Nov 12, 2013 9:55 UTC (Tue)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (4 responses)
Yes, and if the Debian TC decides to make systemd or Upstart the default on Linux, Debian will probably still allow you to use SysV init if you want.
I think that if Debian does decide to change its default init system there will be a huge emphasis on »keeping things working«. Systemd, for example, can deal with SysV init scripts; you just lose some of systemd's special features for those services.
The »people on the fringe« are those who believe that the mere existence of Debian on a FreeBSD or Hurd kernel entitles them to dictate policy to the project as a whole.
It's great if people are »happy with things as they are«. However, progress marches on, and Debian as a project must figure out how to deal with this. Possibly after a transition to a more modern init system, as many (or more) people will be as happy (or even happier) with things as they are then. That there are people who are happy with the current setup today should not act as an automatic barrier to well-reasoned change.
In other words, I'm sure that in the past there were lots of people who were blissfully happy with things like a.out binaries, libc5, or a static /dev directory, but even so the Debian project decided to go with ELF, glibc2, and udev, and by now there is fairly general consensus that these were reasonable decisions. It is very likely that if Debian does decide to go with systemd as the default init system on Linux even in the face of vociferous objections from those people who still like SysV init, a few years from now we will look back and consider that decision reasonable, too, in the grand scheme of things. Fondly remembering the old days when we managed to get by with simpler approaches to many things does not preclude embracing new and better solutions that are designed to deal with today's (or even tomorrow's) challenges.
Posted Nov 12, 2013 10:18 UTC (Tue)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (3 responses)
This is one of the things I trust Debian (and Gentoo) to do well, they provide options rather than picking the 'one true way'
I would not be thrilled if Debian were to pick systemd as the default, but as long as it remained a requirement that packages work without systemd, it would only be a mild annoyance (very similar to their use of Grub while I still prefer lilo in most cases)
It would only be if they started allowing systemd-only packages as something other than a very rare case that I would have a problem with it.
Posted Nov 12, 2013 10:42 UTC (Tue)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (1 responses)
Personally I wouldn't want to bet the farm on this. Your best hope is that the non-Linux Debian platforms will stick with SysV init, and that some support for SysV init remains in Debian policy to cater to those.
Speaking as a Debian developer, one enticing advantage of systemd is no longer having to write SysV init scripts, so I would hope that the Debian policy requirement to do so will eventually go away, or that at the very least we will come up with a way of automatically creating SysV init scripts from systemd unit files. I seem to remember that this is being looked at, and if Debian does decide to go with systemd, I would certainly expect the vocal SysV init aficionados to contribute heavily to that effort.
Posted Nov 12, 2013 13:02 UTC (Tue)
by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
[Link]
Posted Nov 20, 2013 22:53 UTC (Wed)
by josh (subscriber, #17465)
[Link]
There's an option under consideration to keep multiple options; that'd be better than sticking with sysvinit for all eternity, but ideally I'd like to see a switch to systemd with sysvinit script compatibility as the default option, thus allowing software to depend on it.
It'll then be up to people who want to keep other init systems going to submit patches supporting them; it shouldn't be the job of every maintainer of software whose upstream relies on systemd to fork it and remove that dependency. If someone wants that, they should "fix" it upstream or fork the project themselves, rather than making Debian do it.
Which init system for Debian?
Debian already allows you to use systemd if you want.
I would say that people who want something not in their distro are the ones who should change to a different distro rather than the ones who want things to keep working.
your positioning of people who are happy with things as they are as the 'fringe' is not conclusive to calm discussion
Which init system for Debian?
Which init system for Debian?
I would not be thrilled if Debian were to pick systemd as the default, but as long as it remained a requirement that packages work without systemd, it would only be a mild annoyance
Which init system for Debian?
https://github.com/akhilvij/systemd-to-sysvinit-converter
That project seems to have gone dormant about a year ago.
Which init system for Debian?