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PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

By Jake Edge
March 20, 2013

Raspberry Pi Foundation executive director Eben Upton started his PyCon 2013 talk with a complaint that he had just been upstaged. He normally asks the audience "who has a Raspberry Pi?", but conference organizer Jesse Noller had "ruined that" by announcing that all attendees would be getting one of the tiny ARM-based computers. The Python Software Foundation, which puts on PyCon, had arranged for Raspberry Pi computers to be handed out to all 2500+ attendees. It also set aside lab space on the second floor of the Santa Clara (California) Convention Center where attendees could "play" with their new computers—complete with keyboards, monitors, breadboards, LEDs, and other peripherals.

Genesis

[Raspberry Pi lab]

The Raspberry Pi, which is a "small computer for children", came about due to observations that Upton and his colleagues made about the computer skills of high school students applying to study computer science at the University of Cambridge. In his time, anyone that had an interest in computers could probably get their hands on one that would beep when it was turned on and boot directly into a programming language (typically BASIC). Everyone knew how to write the canonical program:

    10 PRINT "MYNAME IS GREAT!!!!"
    20 GOTO 10
When visiting a computer store, that program (or something "filthier") was typed in on each machine; it was a "simpler time" in the 1980s, "we used to make our own entertainment", Upton said.

The availability of those kinds of machines allowed potential students to have a basic level of programming knowledge. But, when interviewing applicants in 2005, they noticed that many lacked that "built-in hacker knowledge". In addition, the 80-90 available spots were only being contested by around 200-250 applicants, rather than the 500 or so in the 1980s and 1990s.

The problem, it seems, is that the 8-bit machines that were readily available in his time no longer exist. Game consoles now serve a similar niche, but are not programmable and are in fact programmer-hostile because of the business models of the console makers. In addition, those 8-bit hacker computers have been "eaten from the top" by the PC. The PC is, obviously, programmable, but users have to choose to install programming tools. This "tiny little energy barrier" is enough to reduce the number of applicants with the requisite skills, he said.

So, there is a niche available to be filled. In order for a device to do so, it has to be interesting to children, Upton said, which means that it needs to be able to play games and have audio/video capabilities. It also needs to be robust, so that it could be "shoved" into a school bag many times without breaking. It needs to be cheap, "like a textbook", which only "shows that we didn't know what textbooks cost".

The target price was $25, so the team spent a lot of time trying to figure out what can be fit into a device with that price. They started with an Arduino-like microcontroller system, but that "didn't meet the 'interesting to children' test". After university, Upton went to work for Broadcom, where he is still employed, though he mostly does Raspberry Pi work these days.

Working at Broadcom led him to a chip with a proprietary RISC core, which the team was able to get to boot to Python. It would also do 720p video and could hit the $25 price point. At that point, they decided to set up a foundation. The "Pi" in Raspberry Pi is Python misspelled, Upton said, which was done because he thought the symbol for pi (π) would make a "fantastic logo". But it turns out that the pi symbol has never been used by the foundation and he regularly has to explain that he does know how "Python" is spelled.

Switching to Linux

As the project progressed, he realized that the team would have to write all its own drivers for devices like network interfaces or SD card readers, which was time consuming. About that time, Broadcom released another version of the chip with an ARM 11 core. "There are advantages to being on the chip design team", Upton said with a chuckle, suggesting that the ARM was added for "unspecified business reasons". The ARM core meant that the Raspberry Pi could benefit from the "enormous investment" that the community has made in Linux.

The BBC Micro was one of the original 8-bit computers that shaped many enthusiasts' early computer experience, so the foundation wanted its computer to be called the "BBC Nano". It approached the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) about using that name several times, but were always turned down for "complicated legal reasons", Upton said.

As part of the effort to convince the BBC, though, a 45-second video pitch was created. Once that video got to YouTube, it had 600,000 views in a single day, a day which Upton spent "not working for Broadcom" and instead "pressing F5" (to refresh the page). That night, he sat down with his wife and realized that they had "promised 600,000 people" that "we would build them a $25 computer", but had "no idea how to do it".

The CPU fit within the $25 budget, but there are lots of other components that go into a computer board. Those can cost a few cents or even more, which all adds up. It took a while, but the team finally fit the design into the budget, or nearly. The Model A is $25, but the more-popular Model B, which has ethernet, more memory, and an additional USB connector, came in at $35.

Upton had just gotten an MBA degree, so he "knew all about business models", he said with a laugh. The foundation had raised $250,000, which could be used to build 10,000 of the devices, so the plan was to build those, sell them, and take that money to build another 10,000. But they started seeing danger signs almost immediately, he said. When a "buggy beta version" of the SD card image that could only run in QEMU was released, it was downloaded 50,000 times. That many people downloading software for hardware that didn't exist and might not for quite some time led to the realization that the "interest was high". Given that the lead time for more systems was three months or so, and there was now a worry the devices would sell out in a week, something needed to change.

Luckily, he said, they started working with two UK companies that put up the capital to build all of the Raspberry Pi computers that were needed. The foundation licenses the name and "intellectual property" (IP) to those companies who "do the heavy lifting". In the end, there were 100,000 orders on the first day, and the millionth Raspberry Pi was sold "sometime last month".

It has been a truly amazing year, Upton said. One of the interesting transitions that he has noted is that the content on the web site has shifted away from mostly being about what the team (and "other adults") were doing to get the devices out the door. Over the last six months or so, the site has covered what "children are doing with the Pi".

Examples

Saying that he wanted to "inflict" some pictures of those activities on the audience, Upton shifted gears to show and describe what has come about since the release of the Pi. As a "graphics hacker", he expected that much of the interesting work would be graphics-related, but that turned out not to be true. There are few graphics demos, though he encourages people to write more.

The first stop on the quick tour was a "Moog-like" synthesizer program that is available for free. The second stop involved beer. It turns out that there is an "enormous overlap" between people who like programming and people who like beer, he said to big audience cheers, which led to a number of different projects. The computers are being used to run both home and commercial brewing equipment using BrewPi, for example.

There is a project to assist with focus stacking using the Pi, which can replace $1000 worth of photography gear for getting better focused images when doing macro (extreme close-up) photography. There is also a huge retro-gaming community for the Pi. The hardware is powerful enough to emulate not only the consoles that he played with, but can also emulate the following generation of gaming consoles that he "complained about" because they "destroyed the era of computers that I grew up with", he said with a grin. Art installations are another fairly common use for the Pi, and Upton showed some lighted paper boats at Canary Wharf on the Thames river.

"Dr. Who and space and the Raspberry Pi all in one" is Upton's description of his favorite hack. A weather balloon with a Tardis as its payload has been used to take pictures from 40km up. That means that a "space program is within the budgetary reach of every primary school in the world".

The Raspberry Pi community has been very inventive with extras. Upton noted The MagPi magazine, which has type-in listings of programs, hearkening back to the 1980s. Typing a program in has its advantages, including "learning opportunities" from mistyping. There is also a Haynes manual for the device.

The simplest cases for the device are PDF files that you print on the "thickest paper you can get through the printer" and fold up into a case. While the Pi is described as "credit card sized", it is actually about 1mil off in both dimensions, he said, but in a "fluke", both the X and Y dimensions turn out to be a multiple of the Lego basis unit size. That led an 11-year-old girl to create a Lego case design for which she now gets royalties. Since she is 11 years old, she takes her royalties in Lego, so she "now has more Lego than me", Upton said.

There is evidence coming in that kids are using the Pi to learn to program, he said. He showed one who is learning with MIT Scratch and noted that the foundation is spending some money right now to get better performance for that language on the Pi. Though he set out to try to help solve a problem for Cambridge University, it "turns out that kids all over the world want to learn to program". He showed a photo of some kids from Uttar Pradesh in India using the Raspberry Pi. Those kinds of pictures give him some hope that they are actually accomplishing something with "this tiny computer".

He noted that there "needs to be a hook" to get the Pi into a kid's life and "apparently a lot of children like to play Minecraft". Mojang, the company behind Minecraft, has done a port of the pocket edition to the Pi: Minecraft Pi Edition. That version has a socket that can be used to talk to the game world from any programming language, which "gives kids a reason to program".

Upton put up a "Try to take over the world" map showing where the computers have been shipped to. Taking over the world seems to be progressing well based on that map. North America has become the continent with the largest "run rate" (i.e. purchase rate) in the last three months, he said, and became the largest install base as of last month. They would like to sell "a hell of a lot more" in South America and India, he said, but "we'll get there".

Another interesting geographical note was a change in the manufacturing location. In the beginning, the boards were built in China, unsurprisingly. Sony contacted the foundation and said that it could build the boards at its factory in South Wales for the same price point. Since September, Raspberry Pi boards have been built there, which is a "big deal" for Upton as he comes from about 10 miles from the factory. The fact that the "lowest-priced general-purpose computer" can be built at a factory in the developed world is "good news" for anyone concerned that there would be no manufacturing in regions like Wales.

Python

There are several connections between Raspberry Pi and Python, starting with the name. The chip was designed using Python, Upton said. He was on the GPU team for the Pi's Broadcom 2835 chip, which used Python to "design the whole damn thing". All of the multimedia IP was verified using Python because it is "100 times quicker" to do it that way. Python and its tools are much easier to use (and faster) than Verilog tools.

The Raspberry Pi benefits from the large body of existing Python (and other interpreted languages) code. Python brings a whole set of applications and tools to the ARM Linux environment. Finally, Python also provides one of the teaching languages for the device. The device supports Logo and Scratch for the youngest children, and will always support C and C++ for people who "want to get close to the metal", but Python has a special place as a learning language. Upton said that Python allows educators to tell children "learn this language" and "you will be on a smooth curve" leading to a language that lots of companies program in. There are no discontinuities in that curve, he said, which is important because it is those steps where students get lost along the way.

Wrapping up, Upton had three more topics on his mind. At some point "soon", the Pi team will need to decide between Python 2.7 and 3.3. It is already a bit confusing as some packages (e.g. PyGame) are only available for one of the two. He is also looking forward to PyPy as a way to get better performance out of the fairly modest Pi processor. Beyond that, the "boot to Python" idea is still floating around, though it is not yet clear what the best teaching environment for the Pi will be. In closing, he hoped that all of the new users in the room would visit raspberrypi.org and report back on what they did with Raspberry Pi.

Many of the examples Upton gave are not particularly Raspberry-Pi-specific, in that they could run on any Linux system. But the Pi provides a convenient package, with compact size, low weight, and lots of connectivity options, that makes it a nice target. While the GPU drivers leave a lot to be desired and the USB driver is a mess, it is still a rather interesting device—particularly at its price point. Could something better have been made? Perhaps, but it would take a dedicated group of folks to get together to do so. Upton and the Raspberry Pi Foundation have made their mark, some friendly competition would make things even more interesting.

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to post comments

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 4:21 UTC (Thu) by jmorris42 (guest, #2203) [Link] (20 responses)

Been following it for years and still don't understand.

Kids don't program. Getting them to download a programming language is too much of a barrier to entry. Getting them to obtain and bring up a Pi isn't. Huh?

Wouldn't it be better to simply package all the wonderful intro level teaching material and Pythonic software they have put together onto a CD-R for Linux (bootable live CD) and Windows? Yes the hardware hacking is also a hook and something that kids need to learn about (but didn't really get to do in the 8bit world of yesterday). But again, a USB to GPIO/i2c/etc dongle with support in the distributed software bundle would be easily achievable in the same $25 price range and would have a full PC behind it for processing the data.

The reason kids aren't learning to program are legion, but these cover most of it:

1. No need. In the 'day' you typed in rudimentary stuff from magazines and then modified it into something usable. These days unpopular playforms have thousands of ready to run, fairly stable programs available. Popular ones have millions. The idea above about hooking into Minecraft sounds like one of the best ideas I have heard in years to solve this problem.

2. No entry level programming environments that aren't too limited to create 'real' programs. It goes straight from Scratch to Eclipse and Visual Studio with few points between. Drag n drop to object oriented programming in one giant step. (Yes WE know about a few options, but no school will touch them.) We need a modern answer to BASIC. Javascript is a poor candidate but with some help could answer the call. The big thing that would help is good entry level docs for programming Javascript without a web server in the picture. If you have Firefox installed, you have a full Javascript devel environment complete with graphical debugger.

3. Programming is for 'nerds.' And lets be brutally honest, despite intense politically correct efforts at inclusion, programming is still a very male dominated area. Schools these days are all about anti-intellectualism and the needs of girls. Unless somebody can finally find the magic formula to interest girls in signing up for programming classes AND convince school administrations that is really going to happen, forget getting buy in.

4. Schools teach Microsoft Word & Powerpoint and call it Computer Literacy. If the Pi bufuddles schools admins enough to get in the door, perhaps that single act justifies the entire project.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 5:46 UTC (Thu) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (8 responses)

parents are also reluctant to let the kids experiment too much with the family computer, it's really easy to mess things up badly (even with a bootable CD)

a 'impulse buy' priced computer that's completely separate doesn't have these issues.

A lot of people got started with programming not by typing programs in from magazines, but from tweaking existing games (i.e. 'cheating')

something along the lines of a Pi is perfect for that, the worst you do is damage the OS badly enough to need to re-write the SD card.

It doesn't have to work the majority of the time, at a million units shipped already, if it only works a fraction of 1% of the time that still gets a lot of new programmers.

And I think it does wonders at changing a computer from something super special that only special people deal with into something that they aren't afraid to experiment with, even if they don't do any programming themselves.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 9:13 UTC (Thu) by ortalo (guest, #4654) [Link]

Agreed. For kids, I suppose this can really be their very own inexpensive toy, while an actual PC (even if its "their PC") is more of an expensive tool that we, parents, provide them.
BTW, the hopefully reduced barrier for entry for low income family may be beneficial too...

There is also the issue of simplicity: the Pi is a computer, but it is a simpler one than a modern PCs which is nearer from a supercomputer than it ever was.
Imagine getting a Cray Y in your home 30 years ago instead of the Apple II. Would you have dared open it? What about these now forgotten parallel Fortran extensions? Argh... Back to playing on the console.

I agree that Minecraft idea is brilliant. Btw, Minecraft success itself may be based on the same ground: simplicity, reachability.

As to boys vs. girls, I have no clue yet personnally; but I agree that this is an important question. The most astonishing is that girls seem so uninterested that they do not even bother taking the time to explain why programming apparently is so uninteresting to them...

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 12:19 UTC (Thu) by wookey (guest, #5501) [Link] (5 responses)

Indeed. It's just a pity that this fine project about computer literacy chose a proprietary platform booting a proprietary OS to implement it. So many other things would have been better. But it is cheap, and it turns out that 'cheap' plus 'good marketing message' is ridiculously successful.

And there are now so many pi hackers that videocore reverse engineering is going on at a reasonable rate. They have a binutils already, I understand. So hopefully what goes around comes around...

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 17:15 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (3 responses)

That really doesn't matter. The BBC B, the ZX81, the C64, all of those were every bit as proprietary. People dug into the guts and figured out how they worked. My only worry is that these days, if people try to publish disassemblies and the like, they'll get sued by the likes of, well, Broadcom...

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 18:39 UTC (Thu) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

The hardware above the chip level was documented in the manuals for the Acorn machines and I've seen a pretty thorough manual for the Amstrad CPC series that upholds this level of documentation. Most of the ICs were commodity components, and the only notable exceptions in the Acorn machines (and in the Sinclair machines) were the ULAs, for which you did get a block diagram in the former case.

Ignoring the physical reverse engineering done on various ULAs, particularly the successful work done on the Spectrum's ULA, it is completely possible to logically reverse engineer these components, and I believe that various emulators actually achieve reasonable accuracy. An interesting test would be to actually try and use such software to drive the hardware and see how compatible the implementation is, although I imagine that you'd need to put work in to do things like refresh the DRAM and other bus signalling that "just happens" in an emulator.

Of course, the software in the microcomputers of that era was proprietary and disassembly listings that were actually published in books did lead to legal action. So some things haven't changed at all.

(I wrote this stuff up here.)

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 19:28 UTC (Thu) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

You didn't need to dig very hard on the C64, at least Stateside; the same stores that sold C64s also sold a $19.95 book documenting its internals (including schematics, pinouts, the 6510 instruction set, the memory map, ...)

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 20:30 UTC (Thu) by wookey (guest, #5501) [Link]

I wasn't comparing with the 1980s, but with other much more open platforms of recent years. Two I've been particularly involved with were the lart and the balloonboard. More recently things like beaglebone (yeah I know, powerPV GPU lets it down). The Pi's lack of freeness wouldn't matter if they didn't go on and on about the openness, which is pretty ironic given that it comes out of Broadcom. There have been plenty of very misleading statements (all that hullabaloo about their free graphics driver for example). If they didn't say that stuff then it wouldn't make me grumpy.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 17:27 UTC (Thu) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

so have someone buy a chip and development kit from broadcom, that should give them all the documentation that they need to re-write the binary blob and release the source.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 21:39 UTC (Thu) by hamjudo (guest, #363) [Link]

"It doesn't have to work the majority of the time, at a million units shipped already, if it only works a fraction of 1% of the time that still gets a lot of new programmers."

In the last 2 months of 2012, I distributed 6 pi's to people I thought I could get interested in programming on them. 2 teenagers are actively using theirs. So I sort of got a whopping 33%. Although, one of them only counts as a conversion to Linux. He was already programming. A 15 year old boy tried to impress my 15 year old daughter with the Mandelbrot sets he generated. A sure sign that he was an excellent candidate for using a Raspberry Pi. Also a sure sign that romance will not come easy.

Not counting the ringer, I still got a respectable 20%.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 12:53 UTC (Thu) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (6 responses)

Wouldn't it be better to simply package all the wonderful intro level teaching material and Pythonic software they have put together onto a CD-R for Linux (bootable live CD) and Windows?

This is the most convincing argument against unquestioning adoption of the product in the education sector. Computers have become common in the schools of the "developed world", so a lack of hardware isn't the problem: it's the lack of appropriate software.

Yes the hardware hacking is also a hook and something that kids need to learn about (but didn't really get to do in the 8bit world of yesterday).

Hardware hacking was done at various levels - for example, wiring things up to various expansion ports - but serious hardware hacking was done less because it was a lot more involved, the exchange of knowledge was more restricted than it is now, and things are cheaper in real terms than they were then. Moreover, the computers themselves were the equivalent of the repeatedly mentioned "family PC" that tinkering children aren't supposed to be messing up, at least when considering the cost of replacing a microcomputer that has been accidentally damaged in a hardware hacking exercise.

But again, a USB to GPIO/i2c/etc dongle with support in the distributed software bundle would be easily achievable in the same $25 price range and would have a full PC behind it for processing the data.

I imagine that such dongles already exist and can't really believe that no-one has pitched this (even on a crowd-funding site) and seen it through to market.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 19:59 UTC (Thu) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (5 responses)

Computers have become common in the schools of the "developed world", so a lack of hardware isn't the problem: it's the lack of appropriate software.

Yes, but the computers in school are confined to the »computer room«, and usually at least 3 out of 10 are out of commission because of viruses, etc. The nice thing about the Raspberry Pi is that every kid can have their own computer and take it home with them after school.

Moreover, the computers themselves were the equivalent of the repeatedly mentioned "family PC" that tinkering children aren't supposed to be messing up

The problem with messing up the »family PC« today is that one's big sister will come down on one like a ton of bricks if she can't get her history project done (or go on Facebook for that matter), and Mom and Dad will be less than enthusiastic about having to fix the PC again before they can use it to do whatever it is that they want to do. If the Raspberry Pi needs its SD card rewritten then at least the rest of the family can still go on the Internet.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 21:51 UTC (Thu) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (4 responses)

It's certainly true that the "family PC" is more likely to be shared these days than it was, but I think people still disregard the cost argument too easily when reframing the 1980s as some time of unhindered computational experimentation. In fact, the blog post I linked to in my own commentary mentions someone almost ruining their Apple II with hardware modifications; such activities would have been much more risky back then: $1000 in early 1980s money is quite a sum now, and even ruining a C64 would have been more costly in real terms than replacing a fairly powerful laptop today.

I think it is nice that each child can take their computer around with them. It reminds me of the Acorn Pocket Book which was a rebadged Psion Series 3, but the difference is that the Raspberry Pi needs a display and thus largely relies on children having their own television because we all know how inconvenient it was back in the 1980s to share the family television. Yes, televisions are cheaper now, but it all adds up.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 23:23 UTC (Thu) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (3 responses)

The difference between the 1980s and today is that the main application for home computers in the 1980s was fooling around. Today, the Internet is so pervasive in all aspects of modern life that a working computer is pretty much required for many serious things, including sending and receiving important e-mail, doing the taxes, schoolwork etc. Regardless of the hardware cost many people cannot afford fooling around with the »family PC« because all family members depend on it in various ways.

It's great if one's family can afford more than one computer such that the kids can use one for fooling around and there is another one handy to go onto the Internet to figure out how to fix the first one if it is broken. Many people do not have that luxury. In that case a $35 Raspberry Pi is a more reasonable option than a second computer that costs several times as much even if one buys it used, and requires the same sort of peripherals (display, keyboard, mouse) as the Raspberry Pi.

As far as the display requirement is concerned, one can use a Raspberry Pi with an old tube TV from the attic. It's not a lot of fun but it is better than nothing. Even if there is only one good monitor in the house one can plug it into the Raspberry Pi instead of the good PC and avoid breaking the good PC when fooling around.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 13:41 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (2 responses)

I'm not disputing the inconvenience of messing up the family computer. My point was purely that the obstacle to hardware hacking in the 1980s was not the lack of access to the hardware internals (there were plenty of robots and other things made for the education market) but the huge financial penalty incurred if one damaged the computer. What we have seen is actually a shift in the consequences from financial inconvenience (spending a few thousand dollars in today's money) to practical inconvenience (having to log into the netbank from work to pay the bills).

So no, I don't disagree with you, but I think people underestimate the investments that people were having to make back in the day, and when people look for reasons why certain things were not rampantly popular they would do well to consider the matter of how much these things actually cost in real terms. (There's also the schoolyard arguments about certain computers being expensive, others being cheap, and which features were necessary, but one has to remember that the BBC Micro had to do so much that one wonders whether the BBC were actually trying to specify a technical platform for their own purposes, which in some ways they were.)

The appliance nature of the Raspberry Pi is a positive step forward (or backward to a simpler era, if you like) and one that the involuntary "cartel" of retailers, manufacturers and Microsoft has managed to keep away from the average consumer for far too long. And yes, the price is also very nice, and it certainly will help to lower hardware acquisition costs for a lot of people even if the board itself is not the total cost of the package. Where I come from, a lot of old TVs will have either antenna or SCART inputs and to use them will require yet more extras, just like using old school monitors will require adapters for the VGA inputs.

My point is that some of the practical aspects have been downplayed with a somewhat nostalgic spin on the inconveniences everyone had to endure back in the day. There will be add-ons that mitigate this, but a bit more foresight and less of the spin would have made a more convenient product, in my opinion.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 18:34 UTC (Fri) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (1 responses)

calling a Pi an 'appliance' is seriously misleading.

Appliances are single purpose devices that almost always prevent you from making any changes to the software on the device.

If you squint hard enough, you could define a Pi this way, it's single purpose is to run a general purpose, open source operating system

But by that argument, Mac computers are appliances, their single purpose is to run OS/X.

I don't think you would find many people agreeing that Mac computers are appliances, and by the same token Pi computers are not appliances.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 23:17 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

I meant appliance in the way that you switch it on and it just works. Given that the very nature of the device requires you to supply your own operating system and that you have complete control over what that is (subject to obvious technical constraints, in case anyone wants to pick apart that statement), I think it's obvious that I didn't mean appliance in the sense that only the manufacturer gets to decide how the device is used.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 21, 2013 17:14 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (2 responses)

3. Programming is for 'nerds.'
Nerds are cool these days, hadn't you heard?

Also, to be blunt, back in the 80s before the old typing courses took over computer education in the UK, programming was a subject that got a widely-watched set of TV programmes made about it with their own enormously popular microcomputer. It was not a niche subject back then -- or, if it was, the niche was huge. Most UK free software developers got their start then -- it's one reason why the field is aging at roughly a year per year and most of us are a similar age: we all came out of that era.

The whole point of the Pi is to try to bring those days back.

There is a reason for 80s nostalgia.

Posted Mar 23, 2013 10:25 UTC (Sat) by alex (subscriber, #1355) [Link] (1 responses)

I feel really grateful to have been raised in the 80s as the home computer boom was taking off. Of course back then I was also lucky my family was well connected enough that I got to play with everything from the Jupiter Ace to the ubiquitous Spectrum and eventually the Atari ST. Although out of the box the ST wasn't super programmable once I had a copy of DevPac and ST Internal (full annotated assembler listing of the BIOS!) I was away.

In the UK it has been a problem for years that we can't get enough graduates with decent programming experience. Even CS students can come through the system having learnt Java and only having a peripheral understanding of what actually goes on under the covers.

The Pi isn't perfect but it is cheap and has the momentum of the educational community behind it. Python I think is a reasonable choice for a introduction to programming and of course being based on a full Linux the possibilities are limited only by imagination. Even the relatively lightweight main CPU is orders of magnitude faster than anything we had to play with in our day.

The UK government has recently abolished the widely mocked ITC GCSE subject, rightly arguing that learning skills like using spreadsheets and word-processors should be covered as tools in other classes. It remains to be seen if we'll see a return of an actual programming based GCSE computer science like in my day but even if we don't it's heartening to see that kids are taking to the platform and letting their imagination run riot :-)

There is a reason for 80s nostalgia.

Posted Mar 26, 2013 0:44 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Of course, the whole reason for the longstanding dearth of people with decent programming experience is because of that very abolished ITC GCSE subject. I was one of the first people to take it, and it was utterly, utterly useless. Hours wasted on Excel and Word 1.0 and PageMaker, while I was writing operating systems in 6510 asm and teaching myself OO in my spare time. Of course, nobody wanted to do A level computing, not if it was as useless as the GCSE (which I understand it was).

It's a real shame that they kept the typing course on (that's what ITC is the descendant of), while ignoring the BBC TV computing programmes and all that sprang from them (a generation of UK hackers! The last generation until now, to be honest. Even now, the newly-resurgent UK computer gaming industry is mostly populated with people who grew up with the BBC B and Speccy.)

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 12:47 UTC (Fri) by stevan (guest, #4342) [Link]

So I would guess that the old SUSE Linux tagline "Have a lot of fun..." doesn't sit comfortably here?

Part of the proposition is the fun factor, not the hard-core educational outcome, and the multiple use aspect rather than the specific.

While the Pi may have some aspects that are a little distance from the ideal, such as the closed examples often given, there is no doubt that it has been successful in attracting all ages to the active side of technology, actually making something rather than merely consuming. It's done so in a wide way, having entry points for the purely educational, the fun and the project users. It seems to me to have done so in the spirit of open-ness too, even if the execution has had to be compromised from the ideal of full hardware open-ness in order to get produced. These things are to be celebrated far more than curmudgeonly elevating the compromises to the point that they detract from the good.

IMHO, of course.

S

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 13:05 UTC (Fri) by dps (guest, #5725) [Link] (4 responses)

If you go to a university you find the obvious subjects, like mathematics, computer science and other numerate subjects are male dominated. I won't say girls can't do them: when I was getting a 2:1 a female got 3+ firsts in mathematics. Most ordinary but not dim males did manage a single first.

While females were a minority the number of girls in science was less than the intake would suggest. Given the university in question I suspect that this was due to suitably qualified girls not applying.

python is not a bad choice of programming language. While it does have advanced features there is no compulsion to use them and you can do a significant amount with a small program. There is no need to explain the various ways of implementing lots of higher level types that would be required if you used C or BASIC instead.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 21:27 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (3 responses)

when I was getting a 2:1 a female got 3+ firsts in mathematics. Most ordinary but not dim males did manage a single first.

Can somebody translate this?

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 22, 2013 22:05 UTC (Fri) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (2 responses)

Can somebody translate this?

In the UK, a »first« is the highest grade for undergraduate degrees. »2:1« is the second highest. See the Wikipedia page.

British undergraduate degree classifications

Posted Mar 23, 2013 22:02 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (1 responses)

Thanks; that was new to me. The context doesn't seem to be talking about grades of undergraduate degrees, though.

"a female got 3+ firsts in mathematics" would have to mean a person received multiple undergraduate degrees in mathematics, which doesn't make sense, and "Most ordinary but not dim males did manage a single first" would similarly mean a student typically receives a large number of these grades.

British undergraduate degree classifications

Posted Mar 24, 2013 12:14 UTC (Sun) by peter-b (guest, #66996) [Link]

At Oxford and Cambridge universities, honours are not awarded to degrees but to examinations. For example, in my Engineering M.Eng course, I got a II.1 class in my Part IA examinations, a I class in Part IB and IIA, and a Distinction in Part IIB (the M.Eng examinations are not awarded honours: you can get a pass, merit or distinction). So I got two firsts and a II.1.

In Maths, the course structure is made up of the BA (three years, Parts IA, IB and II) and, if you do well enough in your BA, the M.Math (a.k.a. Part III --- this used to be called the Certificate of Advanced Study in Mathematics). You could, in principle, get up to four firsts in Mathematics.

I hope that is as clear as mud. :-)

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Mar 24, 2013 13:19 UTC (Sun) by lisch (subscriber, #36574) [Link] (1 responses)

What intrigues me about the Raspberry Pi and getting kids interested in programming is the Minecraft Pi edition. Both of my kids are deeply into Minecraft. My son wants to write "mods", but he doesn't know anything about programming. I have tried to start him off with Greenfoot and Java, but the payoff is too far in the future. I don't know the details yet, but the plug-in socket in the Pi edition is interesting. Python has a lower learning curve than Java, and he might be able to start playing with Minecraft mods much more easily than standard desktop Minecraft.

PyCon: Eben Upton on the Raspberry Pi

Posted Apr 3, 2013 15:52 UTC (Wed) by valhalla (guest, #56634) [Link]

One thing that I really like in minetest (a free software minecraft clone) is the choice of lua as a scripting language.

While I am partial to python in general and expecially in education, lua is an excellent choice as a modding language, and it is just as easy to pick up for young future programmers.


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