Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Zero-day vulnerabilities (aka zero-days or 0days) are those that have not been disclosed, so that they could be exploited before systems can be updated to avoid them. Thus, having a supply of carefully hoarded zero-day vulnerabilities can be advantageous for various people and organizations who might want to attack systems. The market for these zero-days has been growing for some time, which raises some ethical, and perhaps political, questions.
A post to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) blog back in March was the jumping off point for a discussion of the issue on the DailyDave security mailing list recently. The EFF post highlighted the fact that these vulnerabilities are for sale and that governments are participating in the market. When vulnerabilities have a market value, there is little or no impetus to actually report and fix the problems, but those who buy them are able to protect their systems (and those of their "friends"), while leaving the rest of the world unprotected. The EFF recommended that the US government (at least) ensure that these vulnerabilities be reported:
In a post about this year's Black Hat security
conference, DailyDave list owner Dave Aitel mentioned the EFF post, noting
that calls for restricting what zero-day owners can do is "giving up freedom for
security
". He pointed out that any legislative solution is likely to be
ineffective, but, beyond that, it is a question of freedom. Restricting
the kind of code that can be written, or what can be done with that code,
is not respecting anyone's freedom, he said. He advocated
something of a boycott of EFF until it changes its position.
While there was some sympathy for his view of the EFF in the thread, there was also some wider discussion of the implications of zero-day hoarding. Michal Zalewski noted that the practice makes us all less safe:
But Bas Alberts pointed out that vulnerabilities are something of a power-leveler between individuals and larger organizations (like governments):
The semi-public markets in vulnerabilities may be relatively new, but using vulnerabilities as commodities is not, as Alberts describes:
But the focus on zero-days is somewhat misplaced, according to Ben Nagy. While they may be a threat, it is not the primary threat to individuals from governments. There are much simpler ways to compromise a system:
Legislation is also something of a slippery slope. For one thing, it will
be difficult
(or impossible) to
enforce, even within a government. But, even if it is only
applied to the US government—as the EFF post seems to
advocate—these kinds of laws have a tendency to grow over time. As
David Maynor put it: "If you apply regulations to one
part of an industry, at some point regulations will seep to every part
like the stench of rotten eggs.
" He goes on to describe
some—seemingly—unlikely scenarios, but his point is clear: if
government is not "allowed" to possess zero-day exploits, who will be
allowed to?
It is assumed that governments want these kinds of vulnerabilities to attack other countries (a la Stuxnet). As Nagy pointed out, there are easier ways to attack individuals. Security firms also want to stockpile zero-days to protect their customers. There are other reasons to collect vulnerabilities, though.
There are reports that various folks are stockpiling Linux vulnerabilities so that they can "root" their mobile phones and other devices that use it. Presumably, there are iOS fans doing the same thing. Because some device vendors (Apple is the poster child, but various Android vendors aren't far behind) try to prevent users from getting root access, those that want to be able to do what they want with their devices need to find some kind of vulnerability to do so. That may be a "freedom-loving" example, but it suffers from many of the same risks that other types of vulnerability hoarding do.
Zero-day vulnerabilities lose their zero-day status—along with much of their potency—once they are used, reported, or fixed. Someone holding a zero-day cannot know that someone else hasn't also discovered the problem. Any purchased zero-days are certainly known to the seller, at least, but they could also be sold multiple times. If those vulnerabilities fall into the "wrong hands" (however defined), they could be used or disclosed, which makes secrecy paramount in the eyes of the hoarder.
But if the information is to be used to protect certain systems, it has to be disseminated to some extent. Meanwhile, those on the outside are blissfully unaware of a potential problem. It is a tricky problem, but it is a little hard to see how any kind of legislation is going to "fix" it. It may, in fact, not really be a solvable problem at all. As various posters in the thread said, it is tempting to want to legislate against "bad" things, but when trying to define "bad", the devil is in the details.
| Index entries for this article | |
|---|---|
| Security | Bug reporting |
| Security | Legislation |
| Security | Vulnerabilty hoarding |
Posted Aug 16, 2012 7:41 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (15 responses)
They probably figure because they have virtually unlimited money to burn and are not operating under the same laws and restrictions that they force everybody else to conform too that they don't need to worry about their security.
Posted Aug 16, 2012 11:32 UTC (Thu)
by robert_s (subscriber, #42402)
[Link] (6 responses)
Right. And who are you going to trust over governments? Without government I can guarantee you every freedom you gained would be very quickly clawed back by some corporate monstrosity accountable to nobody but their shareholders (which increasingly nowadays is private equity).
Posted Aug 16, 2012 15:03 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (3 responses)
To think that the government acts as a counter to the monolithic corporate power structure just means that you drank too much cool-aid. Without the government there wouldn't be a monolithic corporate power structure.
Posted Aug 21, 2012 13:56 UTC (Tue)
by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454)
[Link] (2 responses)
And I doubt a social animal like man can avoid forming groups once population density gets non-minimal.
Posted Aug 21, 2012 15:48 UTC (Tue)
by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106)
[Link] (1 responses)
Civil war is involves _two_ governments, not "no government". In civil war, two groups are claiming and competing for "legitimate" central power in a given territory. "No government" means just the opposite, that no one has an effective, "legitimate" claim.
> And I doubt a social animal like man can avoid forming groups once population density gets non-minimal.
There's nothing wrong with forming groups. The problem lies in aggressive actions toward people who do not choose to join or remain in your group.
Posted Aug 21, 2012 16:14 UTC (Tue)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link]
Posted Aug 17, 2012 3:37 UTC (Fri)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link]
The solution, or at least a part of a solution, is to stop assuming that governments are the only answer. Especially stop giving them a monopoly on criminal prosecution. When a corporation or government violates the law, or when one of their crony bosses screw up, they usually get off with a pat on the back in the form of a golden parachute because they have buddies in charge of the FBI, SEC, and other enforcement agencies and prosecuting offices who pick and choose who to prosecute and for what.
Instead of letting governments be the sole judge of who to prosecute, let victims also prosecute the case.
To go along with this, you have to prevent malicious prosecution, which is also the second half of the problem as regards government prosecutors. You need to remove all immunity from government prosecutors, agents, chiefs, and all the rest of them, to match private prosecutors. There is no good reason to let them off the hook for ignorance of the law or mistakes which would land ordinary people in prison.
Certainly you'd need some fine tuning, but the basic problem is that governments first choose who to prosecute and not prosecute, and then suffer no consequences for either malicious prosecution or letting their buddies off scot-free. Whatever the problems would be from private prosecution, they'd be minor compared to the problems of government monopoly on prosecution.
Posted Aug 18, 2012 21:48 UTC (Sat)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link]
I'm not sure what armageddon you're imagining here, because without government, there are no corporations. A corporation is a legal device that allows a government to apply laws to a large group of people (shareholders of a corporation) as simply as to one person, in certain areas (such as enforcing contracts).
Without government, there isn't any entity to be accountable to shareholders. Imagine a thousand people giving someone like Bill Gates money to develop software, with his promise that he'll give them the profits from it. Gates is no more obligated, absent government, to give those shareholders the profits than he is to give a thousand users what they expect.
The freedom-grabbing monstrosities that would exist are strong, selfish individuals. Only people can can be evil.
Posted Aug 16, 2012 14:53 UTC (Thu)
by nickbp (guest, #63605)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Aug 16, 2012 15:04 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (3 responses)
Sometimes I just like to point things out that should be blindingly obvious to everybody
Posted Aug 16, 2012 21:27 UTC (Thu)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (2 responses)
It is pointless wasting your time and ours by trying to convert us to your political religion. Please stop trying.
Posted Aug 16, 2012 22:54 UTC (Thu)
by apoelstra (subscriber, #75205)
[Link] (1 responses)
I don't mean to fan a flame-war, but I enjoy drag's posts, and he does manage to do them politely. A topic such as zero-day markets is naturally politically charged, so given that, it's nice to see some differing opinions.
Posted Aug 17, 2012 13:26 UTC (Fri)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
Dragons are bad companions in living rooms. They spread flames (and eat people).
Posted Aug 16, 2012 16:59 UTC (Thu)
by man_ls (guest, #15091)
[Link]
Not that my own government (Spain) is run by nuns, but it does some good stuff every once in a while. At least it does not work actively against the security of its own people. And I can assure you that it doesn't have unlimited money to burn! So, useless generalization.
Posted Aug 16, 2012 18:30 UTC (Thu)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link] (1 responses)
s/governments/humanity/ig
Just goes to show some more of the nature of humanity.
Doesn't matter what you do.. once you get more than 2 humans together.. they become this way.. which is why I for one look forward to our robotic masters.
Posted Aug 17, 2012 13:22 UTC (Fri)
by man_ls (guest, #15091)
[Link]
Posted Aug 16, 2012 19:10 UTC (Thu)
by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435)
[Link]
Posted Aug 18, 2012 14:26 UTC (Sat)
by kjp (guest, #39639)
[Link]
War is the health of the state, after all.
Posted Aug 21, 2012 13:08 UTC (Tue)
by ortalo (guest, #4654)
[Link]
And investment decisions on such guarantees are much more difficult to do reliably than inventing threat scenarios that can attract attention of... some public.
Posted Aug 23, 2012 10:06 UTC (Thu)
by reddit (guest, #86331)
[Link] (3 responses)
I mean, what stops the party who trades second from taking either the money or the information and disappearing?
Do people just sell to governments and trust them to pay after they receive the vulnerability information?
Or perhaps there's a trusted middle-man? (but then, how can it be trusted considering he could use or resell the vulnerability with no way to prevent it?)
Also, doesn't this create a great incentive to becoming a valued contributor to Firefox or Chrome just to plant vulnerabilities in them?
Should we perhaps assume that this is happening regularly and thus that any mainstream software should not be trusted to be secure at all?
Posted Aug 26, 2012 14:57 UTC (Sun)
by philomath (guest, #84172)
[Link] (2 responses)
Ah, it's based on trust. If you lie one time, no one will deal with you a second time.
Posted Aug 26, 2012 15:32 UTC (Sun)
by viro (subscriber, #7872)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 26, 2012 17:54 UTC (Sun)
by apoelstra (subscriber, #75205)
[Link]
Violence is even worse for business that unfair dealing, and everyone involved knows this. So maybe for large bulk deals between criminal enterprises, this is a factor, but certainly not for ordinary everyday drug deals.
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
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Evil governments and corporations
Without government I can guarantee you every freedom you gained would be very quickly clawed back by some corporate monstrosity accountable to nobody but their shareholders
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
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Not mine
Just goes to show some more of the nature of governments.
Why do you always put all governments in the same basket as your own? You know, some governments do sometimes care about their people. Strange notion, right? I think that this situation says more about the people that run your current US government than about governments in general.
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Beware rationality taken to extremes. Just as truth and reality are opposed, so are rationality and justice. Paraphrasing:
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
As far as the laws of man refer to justice, they are not rational; and as far as they are rational, they do not make justice.
If by "robotic overlords" you mean "hyper-rational entities" then we would be even worse than before.
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
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What should be valued most by people (and I do not necessarily mean that it should be monetized) are security guarantees, not vulnerabilities.
Personnally, I would even argue that all open-source OSes have avoided taking such decisions since their start (either by taking purely extremist or purely pragmatic directions). But that would just be to start the discussion.
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
I mean, what stops the party who trades second from taking either the money or the drugs and disappearing?
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
Stockpiling zero-day vulnerabilities
