OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 30, 2012 11:43 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307)
In reply to: OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H) by gioele
Parent article: OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

> Why do you way so?

For starters, because the ODbL 1.0 does not pass the DFSG? (It has a desert-island-test problem in section 4.6 IIRC...)

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 30, 2012 13:36 UTC (Mon) by gioele (subscriber, #61675) [Link] (1 responses)

> For starters, because the ODbL 1.0 does not pass the DFSG?

I could not find a detailed analysis of the problems of DFSG with ODBL. Pointers?

The only thing I have seen is <http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2010/08/msg00006.html> there the author says he finds a problem with licence and he does not want it accepted as DFSG-compliant, for the same reasons he do not think that AGPLv3 should be treated as DFSG-complieant. Anyhow, he later admits that AGPLv3 has been accepted as DFSG-compliant by the FTP masters and that ODBL is probably as much compliant as AGPLv3.

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 30, 2012 17:27 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]

ballombe's answer, copied again below, is clearer than mine, and I don't really have pointers right now.

> The ODbL try to enforce EU-style sui-generis database right in jurisdiction where they do not exist in law.
> Any "license" that restrict rights you would have in the absence of a license is non-free (and is actually a contract).

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 31, 2012 8:56 UTC (Tue) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link] (5 responses)

"because the ODbL 1.0 does not pass the DFSG"

The key letter there is the S in DFSG. The DFSG is designed for _software_, and those who wrote it would be the first to point that out.

Unfortunately geodata is one of the most complex corners of copyright law.

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 31, 2012 19:44 UTC (Tue) by nowster (subscriber, #67) [Link] (1 responses)

> The key letter there is the S in DFSG. The DFSG is designed for _software_, and those who wrote it would be the first to point that out.

Is a PostScript document sent to a printer not software? Can a list of points and lines be software for some virtual machine? The distinction is not clear.

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Aug 2, 2012 22:19 UTC (Thu) by ElCapitano (guest, #86078) [Link]

So which do you think is more relevant, "Software" guidelines or a "Creative" license?

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 31, 2012 20:12 UTC (Tue) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link] (2 responses)

Since 1986, when I first started developing software, I am under the impression that anything that is not "hard"-ware nor "meat"-ware is "soft"-ware. Ok.

Ah, silly me, but that is *exactly* Debian's definition... Any WORK contained in debian must be Free in accordance to the DFSG.

Seriously, now, geodata is complex because it is not considered everywhere as copyrightable. And the ODbL is not DFSG-compliant, not because it is analog to the AGPL, but both because it does not pass the desert island test and because it tries to emulate database-rights restrictions in jurisdictions where databases do not generate any rights. THAT is why CC-BY-SA was a better license than ODbL for OSM data.

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Jul 31, 2012 21:06 UTC (Tue) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link] (1 responses)

"Seriously, now, geodata is complex because it is not considered everywhere as copyrightable."

Well, it's not just that - it's also about what is considered a derived work.

"THAT is why CC-BY-SA was a better license than ODbL for OSM data."

Except that its fuzziness in the area of geodata had the beautiful dual quality of scaring off potential commercial users while at the same time probably also being unenforceable. Certainly unenforceable against a foe with any real legal budget to speak of as OSM's legal budget is ~0.

OpenStreetMap bot removes waypoints after licensing change (The H)

Posted Aug 1, 2012 8:16 UTC (Wed) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]

Are you aware of how much more difficult and expensive it is to bring proceedings under breach of contract rather than copyright infringement? The contract language in the ODbL could well make it harder to enforce.