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Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 17:14 UTC (Wed) by gmaxwell (guest, #30048)
In reply to: Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future by mjg59
Parent article: Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Is no software meaningfully free because I can't use it to kill someone without breaking the law?

You're talking about software which RedHat will be cryptographically signing, the absence of which will leave users in various degrees of not being able to run it on their computers vs not being able to misrepresent my software by leaving an inaccurate name on it.


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Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 17:18 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (7 responses)

No, I'm saying that you never had the freedom to do something you asserted you had the freedom to do. This places yet another obstacle in your way, yes, but your original claim was simply untrue.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 17:20 UTC (Wed) by gmaxwell (guest, #30048) [Link] (6 responses)

I did no such thing.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 17:39 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (5 responses)

"When I write software which Fedora packages I enjoy the same freedom fedora has to fork the distribution"

Fedora can fork Fedora as often as it wants and keep the use of the trademarks (see the various spins for evidence of this). You can't do that. You do not enjoy the same freedom that Fedora has.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 17:54 UTC (Wed) by gmaxwell (guest, #30048) [Link] (4 responses)

Fedora also does not have the freedom to lie about the authorship/identity of the software.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 17:56 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (3 responses)

The trademark license restricts you further than that.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 18:56 UTC (Wed) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link]

If a Linux desktop distribution was ever commercially successful in a meaningful way, the first thing that would happen is black hats would create fake copies of the distribution with spyware and adware installed, or worse. We've seen this time and time again.

If you don't have a trademark, then you can't do anything about it. This is also the reason why Linus Torvalds has a trademark on "Linux."

It's all very well and good to say "well, those people are stupid. They should have gone to the REAL fedoraproject.org." But if you don't have a trademark, there's nothing stopping the black hats from registering therealfedoraproject.org and putting the badware there.

tl;dr Trademark law exists for a reason and it's not evil.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 19:00 UTC (Wed) by gmaxwell (guest, #30048) [Link] (1 responses)

It really doesn't. In the US, at least, the rights scoped by trademark are substantially limited to cases which would create confusion or the potential for misrepresentation. And as I said before— regardless of how Fedora is licensed it remains just as unlawful to use Fedora to kill people or rob banks, and yet we don't consider fedora this problematic for software freedom.

The analogous cases is that I release software under a copyleft license and then FooCorp takes my software an enhances it so that it can run on some new class of devices and then redistributes it. However, downstream recipients are prohibited from making modifications to these enhanced copies unless they pay $99 for a non-transferable right to modify, or if they remove the enhancement. This would generally be prohibited by a copyleft license if accomplished via copyright restrictions.

In this case the enhancement the modification of the software by the addition of a cryptographic signature with a key only known by RedHat and the prohibition is the digital rights management function of the bios instead of a licensing restriction. The fact that there is some obfuscation where the distributor and the device maker are distinct entities isn't really important relative to the recipient's freedom, and for all I know the UEFI firmware makers are just shell companies for RedHat (not that I think they are, but could be for the next party trying to enhance+lockdown Linux systems).

The difference in mechanism may make this behavior pattern compatible with current copyleft licenses. But because the end effect can be the same people can reasonably hold that it's incompatible with the intent and spirit of copyleft licenses, and that perhaps new licenses ought to be authored which prevent gatekeepers from extracting rents on making free software usable by licensing out signing key.

Fedora, secure boot, and an insecure future

Posted Jun 6, 2012 19:14 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

Sigh. No. Really. Read the copyright license attached to the files containing the Fedora trademarked artwork. I'm not telling you you have fewer rights because I misunderstand trademark law - I'm telling you you have fewer rights because the license says so.


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