Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 25, 2012 13:07 UTC (Sun) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Quotes of the week by anselm
Parent article: Quotes of the week

The obvious way of tackling this as far as the games are concerned would not be to try the Sisyphean task of establishing a distribution-independent third-party application deployment infrastructure, but to come up with a way to run Android games on generic Linux desktops.

In other word: the obvious way is to follow OS/2, FreeBSD and other such platforms on the road to the irrelevancy. Besides a lot of popular Android games use binary ARM libraries and/or fancy on-phone controls thus it's not easy to bring them to Linux desktop. How will you emulate phone tilt?

The distributions really don't have much incentive to bend over backwards in this case.

If they don't want to see more non-technical users, then no, they don't need that. If they are happy to slowly lose the existing users then they can continue as before.

Especially since you'd need buy-in from the main Linux distributions, because otherwise any effort towards an app-store-based Linux will just be seen as »yet another distribution« and not change anything at all.

You don't need app-store-based Linux. App store itself can easily be installable package for the mainstream Linux distribution or a few of them.

It may be uncomfortable to you but if you want an environment for third-party Linux desktop apps you will have to go to the developers of those apps to figure out what they need

We are doing this, yes.

If they're clever they'll band together to do it,

Well, they are doing this to some degree.

and talk to the distributions, too.

Why will they want that? Distributions are obstacles, you don't talk with obstacles, you sidestep and/or remove them.

If the third-party developers don't feel the need to scratch then maybe they're not itching enough.

Oh, they feel the need all right. The only problem: it's even harder to convince them to do anything together. The most realistic outcome is that someone will just take Linux, remove useless components (such as GNOME, KDE, X Windows System, etc) and create app-store for that. If it'll be Google then most probably it'll be Android-based or ChromeOS-based desktop, if it'll be someone else they may pick something else. But I doubt they will spent a lot of time trying to keep the system usable in parallel with traditional Linux desktop.

I'm not sure I'd like such outcome, but looks like there are no choice. The community have spoken: refusal to make a choice is by itself a choice.

I just hope it'll not regret it later.

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 26, 2012 11:37 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (2 responses)

Distributions are obstacles, you don't talk with obstacles, you sidestep and/or remove them.

This would be a very stupid approach since you need the distributions to convince their users that the »app store« is a good idea. Remember that most existing Linux users are generally happy with what the distributions give them (or else they wouldn't be Linux users in the first place).

Your only hope to get people to accept the »Linux app store« is by convincing distributions to stop including stuff that users can get from the app store, and to tell their users to get that stuff from the app store instead. There is no incentive for users of a distribution to get something from the app store if the distribution already comes with the same something but well-integrated into the rest of the distribution and with the distribution's own »seal of approval«.

So you need to get distributions to buy the idea that by packaging stuff for the »app store« rather than just their own ecosystem they will save work (presumably because their users get to use stuff, that other people than them are packaging for the »app store«, that the distribution would otherwise have to package for their own users). This is going to appeal more to the smaller distributions with less manpower than the Debians and openSUSEs of the world. For these distributions, since they basically include every interesting FLOSS package already and have enough volunteers to package stuff, the selling point would probably be the convenient availability of non-FLOS software.

In any case, not working with the distributions would be quite misguided, simply because approximately every single Linux user will be using one distribution or another just to get at the app store. That distribution may well be a basic get-at-the-app-store one (Chrome OS comes to mind) but the existence of such a distribution will not make Debian or Red Hat go away. The old saw, »If you can't beat'em, join'em« applies here as well.

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 26, 2012 14:36 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (1 responses)

Remember that most existing Linux users are generally happy with what the distributions give them (or else they wouldn't be Linux users in the first place).

Bingo! The problem: more and more of them are stopping being Linux users.

Your only hope to get people to accept the »Linux app store« is by convincing distributions to stop including stuff that users can get from the app store, and to tell their users to get that stuff from the app store instead.

Nope. Much simpler and easier way is to convince third-party developers to release goodies for your app store and not for general-purpose Linux. If you can not convince them then the whole thing will be a bust (Linux has huge problems with commercial software while FOSS is supported adequately by existing distributions). If you can then people will use your app store for the lack of choice.

For these distributions, since they basically include every interesting FLOSS package already and have enough volunteers to package stuff, the selling point would probably be the convenient availability of non-FLOS software.

Yup. If you'll convince enough third-party non-FOSS developers to participate in project then people will start using app store to get these apps. If some FOSS developers will start releasing their goodies via this scheme it'll be added bonus.

In any case, not working with the distributions would be quite misguided, simply because approximately every single Linux user will be using one distribution or another just to get at the app store.

Why are you so sure? You can just provide package for a few major distributions. You don't need to cooperate with distribution makers and play their politics for that.

That distribution may well be a basic get-at-the-app-store one (Chrome OS comes to mind) but the existence of such a distribution will not make Debian or Red Hat go away.

Right. It's not our goal to kill Debian or Red Hat. But since cooperation with them does not make our life easier…

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 29, 2012 20:01 UTC (Thu) by oak (guest, #2786) [Link]

Strange that nobody's mentioned the stuff that nowadays seem to be requirements for bootstrapping a new app store:
* DRM so that users cannot copy the proprietary apps
* Secured devices so that DRM cannot be broken i.e. users don't get "root"
* HW support for security and keys for signed content
* Few millions (or at least hundreds of thousands) in cash to pay games houses etc put enough initial content to app store to bootstart it

Linux distros are too small fish to have the cash or connections for last, they would need to partner with manufacturers for the HW side and normal Linux users don't like DRM or not having full control of their OS at all.

So, I see iOS / Android style "app store" as highly unlikely for normal Linux desktop.

How well the Ubuntu app store is fairing?