RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL is built with free software, and Red Hat fully understands both the conditions attached to free software licenses and the expectations of the development community. So the source for each RHEL release is promptly made available to the community. It is natural to expect that plenty of people would like to take advantage of the stability of and support behind RHEL without actually paying for a support contract; the availability of the source makes it possible to do exactly that. All that is needed is to rebuild those source packages, minus any Red Hat branding, and make the result available to the community.
Except that, in reality, the problem seems to be harder than that. Creating a proper build and distribution environment requires work and equipment. Quality control can be a lot of work, especially if strict binary compatibility with RHEL is desired. The security update stream must be followed constantly. And Red Hat does not always make the job of keeping up with their releases easy. So anybody wanting to make and support a proper RHEL clone must be prepared to invest a lot of time and infrastructure into the task.
Given that the desired end result of any RHEL rebuild effort - something that looks as much like RHEL as possible - is clear and unvarying, one would think that there would not be room for a large number of RHEL rebuild projects. There is not much space for ego or interesting new development, so it would make sense for everybody with an interest in this area to work together for the best end result. That is not how things have worked out, though. One need not look to far to find plenty of rebuilds out there:
- Oracle
Linux is the most notorious of the commercial rebuilds. For the
most part, Oracle has been working from the RHEL base with an eye
toward binary compatibility. Over time, the company has started to
add in some features of its own, including a newer kernel.
- CentOS is arguably the largest and
best established of the free rebuild projects. Many commercial
hosting providers
offer CentOS installs, even if they have no other RHEL clones
available. CentOS is clearly successful, but it is not the most
community-oriented of projects. The project's leadership is jealous
of its user base and seemingly unwilling to open things up to
outsiders. At times the CentOS developers have failed spectacularly
to keep up with Red Hat's releases, with the result that CentOS users
have seen prolonged periods without security updates. That said, the
rapid release of CentOS 6.2 suggests that the situation is improving.
- Scientific Linux has a
significant and growing user base; it also has a small core of paid
developers. This distribution has arguably done a better job of
staying on top of security updates in recent times, but, as of this
writing, it has not caught up to the Red Hat 6.2 release.
- Ascendos claims to be "
is a free, community-supported, and professional-grade Linux platform
". It is also vaporware, with no actual releases to date. Its development was initially led by Troy Dawson, who has also worked with Scientific Linux, but a job at Red Hat evidently put an end to that work. Troy's replacement, Douglas McClendon, stepped down in mid-December. Despite its claimed community orientation, Ascendos does not appear to have attracted many other developers, so the project now appears stalled. - GoOSe, on its surface, looks a
lot like Ascendos. It, too, claims to be "
all about the community
", but has not yet created much of an actual development community. The project had hoped to get a 6.0 alpha release out by the end of the year, but that did not quite happen.
There have been discussions recently about cooperation between Ascendos and GoOSe, but nothing has been announced yet.
- ClearOS is a rebuild "
built on source code from a prominent North American Linux vendor
" offered by a group called "Clear Foundation." There is a lot of talk of community on Clear Foundation's web site, but "community" seems to consist mainly of access to a set of forums. By all appearances, ClearOS is meant to be a vehicle for a series of commercial support operations. The current ClearOS offering is based on RHEL 6.0, with a 6.2 release available as a beta.- Fermi Linux is a rebuild of Scientific Linux. Its current 6.1 release adds a number of packages and tweaks some settings.
- PUIAS Linux is a rebuild published by Princeton University. It is currently based on RHEL 6.2 with a number of additional packages.
- ClearOS is a rebuild "
There are undoubtedly others, but, at this point, the picture should be clear: a lot of independent groups are putting a lot of effort into their own rebuilds of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Some of them are more successful than others, but none are as good as they could be with a bit more focused effort.
Given the long list of existing distributions and the effort required to
create and maintain a new one, anybody thinking of adding to the list
should think long and hard about why that seems like a good idea. If the
intent is to provide a Linux experience that is not possible with any of
the existing distributions, perhaps there is an excuse for making a new
one. But, in the case of RHEL rebuilds, there is simply no latitude for
the creation of that new experience. The desired result is something that
looks and acts like RHEL. Perhaps the various groups making their own RHEL
clones would get better results if they were to build a single base
distribution to work from. They could then compete fiercely to provide the
slickest desktop theme, which is where all the interesting action is
anyway.
Posted Jan 5, 2012 6:16 UTC (Thu)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Jan 5, 2012 18:38 UTC (Thu)
by filteredperception (guest, #5692)
[Link] (2 responses)
The reason I chose to work on Ascendos, instead of being content with with 'the big two', was because they weren't meeting, or interested in meeting my needs/wants in an *el clone/fork. Specifically, I'm a paranoid sort that doesn't believe an 'enterprise linux' build has any business being done on an online system, or in a way that couldn't be reproduced by a military grunt from a simple recipe/instructions/documentations/script.
CentOS is very clear about not wanting to enable that, because were that possible, people could trivially fork/rebrand/rebuild. And then the ego stamped into the name/logos/theme of their rebuild would not be enough to keep them relevent as an organization (or so they appear to feel).
ScientificLinux on the other hand has the problem in my mind of being the output of an inexusably* unreproduable result of a manual[1] build process. Hopefully done on offline systems, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is not the case.
Thus I spent a lot of time trying to develop an 'el-build' script which
a) download upstream sources and minimal required bootstrapping environment
b) apply a few megabytes of deltas/patches to transform the collection of
c) build into a mirrorable distro.
The key being to encapsulate the entirety of the differences from upstream
That was my vision, FWIW. But yes, I did fail to attract other developers,
-dmc
* from the perspective of traditional 'scientific method'
[1] http://listserv.fnal.gov/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind1111&L=...
Posted Jan 6, 2012 12:21 UTC (Fri)
by walex (guest, #69836)
[Link]
I think a fully automated way to build a base distro from sources as you describe would be very welcome at Scientific Linux. Their main mission is to support the CERN WLCG Grid and they are somewhat overworked. They had therefore considered adopting CentOS as the base and then work only on the "Scientific" bits. Try to submit a presentation at HEPiX, it might be well received. The CERN guys might be especially interested, as they build their own slightly customised version on top of Scientific Linux, and are the guys who really matter.
Posted Mar 8, 2012 11:27 UTC (Thu)
by sudhirgandotra (guest, #83392)
[Link]
Posted Jan 5, 2012 14:20 UTC (Thu)
by michel (subscriber, #10186)
[Link] (11 responses)
Posted Jan 6, 2012 3:36 UTC (Fri)
by ewan (guest, #5533)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 6, 2012 11:50 UTC (Fri)
by michel (subscriber, #10186)
[Link]
Posted Jan 6, 2012 12:30 UTC (Fri)
by walex (guest, #69836)
[Link] (1 responses)
But Red Hat are a for profit company, therefore as a company they decided to focus on their paying customers for EL. The non-profit variant is Fedora and it is deliberately not EL-like. Part of the problem is that as another commenter points out a lot of very clever sysadms liked to play the game of looking good to management by using a business distro without the cost of support, reckoning it would be infrequently needed, only to turn around and blame the business distro when support became needed. So Red Hat decided to switch to a model where pay-in-advance is the only way to get the distro.
Posted Jan 6, 2012 12:58 UTC (Fri)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link]
Actually I've heard that Red Hat will be happy to support your existing CentOS installation if you buy the requisite RHEL licence(s), with no need to reinstall everything.
Posted Jan 6, 2012 15:18 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link]
They do. It's called ftp.redhat.com. People have taken advantage of it and that is why we have things like CentOS and Scientific Linux.
Posted Jan 6, 2012 23:49 UTC (Fri)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Jan 11, 2012 1:33 UTC (Wed)
by filteredperception (guest, #5692)
[Link] (4 responses)
I doubt this is the case, probably for several reasons, not the least of which would be because the spirit of the GPL, and perhaps even the current interpretation of it would suggest then that RedHat be required to produce the build scripts used to generate that aggregation, so that others could easily modify and then redistribute an enhanced/changed version of that aggregation.
One of the subtler angles I see of all this, is how we are, IMHO, probably well past the point of not thinking of linux distros as singular derived works in their entirety, rather than as collections of objects that can be thought of as derived works, absent the collection being thought of as such.
That said, RH does go a long way towards empowering users to create derived from-source distributions. It's just that 90/10 thing and how that last 10% of the work just gets fractally gnarly. Probably I just made the mistake of thinking koji was the right tool for the job I was using it for. I would like to leverage it to enable clustered superfast builds, but given I think my acer aspire one netbook(amd dual core, 4Gram) can probably build all of current rhel6+updates from source in a week... eh...
Posted Jan 11, 2012 7:23 UTC (Wed)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (3 responses)
http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_rha_eula.html
It asserts RedHats' rights over its trademarks and the need to acquire permission in any commercial redistribution. It doesn't mention private redistribution, but the GPL then gives you the general right to copy, and private redistribution isn't restricted by trademark law.
Posted Jan 11, 2012 19:57 UTC (Wed)
by filteredperception (guest, #5692)
[Link] (2 responses)
Hmm? But asside from my skepticism of what truth there actually is in that, you fail to mention the immensely broad realm of 'non-private, non-commercial' redistribution. That matters a lot to me. So much so that I spent an obsessive amount of time scrubbing trademarks from DevKitPro's redistribution of GCC as a Nintendo-DS homebrew development environment. Specifically, Dave Murphy educated me as to the fact that users have no right to redistribute, even unmodified copies of GPL binaries including protected trademarks. Basically one of my overriding goals is to provide a turnkey LiveOS distro that includes both the code of RHEL6 and DevKitPro, but in a form in which any user, can _easily_ fix a 1-line bug, and redistribute, without the need for permission from any party, and even presuming that I place trademark redistribution protections on my derived work equivalent to the way RedHat and DevKitPro do. That is, I believe, quite in tune with the spirt of the GPL. And you'd be amazed what a pain in the ass that task is to actually accomplish. But it'll happen soon enough...
Posted Jan 11, 2012 20:31 UTC (Wed)
by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106)
[Link] (1 responses)
In the case of unmodified copies, that would be a purely descriptive use of the trademarks, and thus normally permitted under trademark law. After all, you're using the trademark to designate the precise binaries distributed by the trademark holder, and protecting that association is the entire purpose of the trademark.
Distributing modified binaries would, of course, be an entirely separate issue, even if they were derived from the same source code. "Based on TrademarkedName(R)" would probably pass, as a purely factual statement, but you can't legally label your own version with someone else's trademark and pass it off as the original software.
Posted Jan 11, 2012 20:56 UTC (Wed)
by filteredperception (guest, #5692)
[Link]
That list just reinforces my impression that there are only two free RHEL rebuilds that matter: CentOS and Scientific Linux. Others should be ignored. These two also seem to have sufficiently different niches to justify both of them. CentOS (which I run on several machines) tries to be maximally RHEL-compatible, and Scientific Linux feels free to add interesting stuff, while keeping the RHEL base for stability.
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
would simply
from mirrors.kernel.org/archive.fedoraproject.org.
srpms into a newly forked/rebranded set
into the smallest possible set of deltas and build scripts, such that they
are as easy to audit and rebuild as humanly possible.
though the only ones I really saw in the area seemed too much in my mind to
just want to become the next centos-like technocrat clique, instead of my
goals of just automating away the whole [expletives deleted] problem so that even amateurs could remove redhat's/centos's ego-stamp from their distro, and replace it with their own.
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
This can help a lot of students to learn the internals of Linux and spread it further.
I would be intereste in such a script of tutorial.
thanks.
What I have never understood is why RH does not provide a personal/non-profit way for someone to run RHEL. Simply allow you to run it, without any support, but with access to updates, etc. Clearly, I'm not going to pay for enterprise support for a bunch of small home based systems.
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
I use Fedora for my main machine at home, but end up using SL for some of my servers to get the more slowly evolving/stable aspects that I want there.
Perhaps it's simply a scaling problem.
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
Well, the problem there is that people bought the box, which implies at least some sort of support and is not unreasonable for the people who purchased the product to expect. And I think there are ways to deal with support calls from folks that have no support, but I guess this is why I am not running a $1B company.
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
So Red Hat decided to switch to a model where pay-in-advance is the only way to get the distro.
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
RHEL clones: a surfeit of riches
