Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 20, 2011 15:02 UTC (Tue) by quintesse (guest, #14569)
In reply to: Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now by cjcox
Parent article: Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Don't you think you're exaggerating a bit? I think you can at least leave the H out of you're IMHOs ;)

I think it's exactly the other way around, the overall design is brilliant but we'll probably see in the future that some of the decisions might not have been the best, but we'll never know without actually using it. That's why I use Fedora, I say "just bring it on!".

Of course I'm one of those persons who hasn't had any problem with Pulse Audio for ages now and think it's actually quite good so I might not feel the need to rile against another Poettering project ;)

Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 21, 2011 6:50 UTC (Wed) by dsommers (subscriber, #55274) [Link]

> I think you can at least leave the H out of you're IMHOs ;)

Unless that H is for Honest ...

Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 21, 2011 8:38 UTC (Wed) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link] (4 responses)

> Of course I'm one of those persons who hasn't had any problem with Pulse Audio for ages now and think it's actually quite good so I might not feel the need to rile against another Poettering project ;)

I'm certain that systemd will also get there, eventually. The problem is that it's not there yet, and the system it tries to replace, even with all his warts, is solid and well understood. And let's not forget that we are talking about a critical part of the system.

Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 21, 2011 11:06 UTC (Wed) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359) [Link] (2 responses)

One thing that bugs me about systemd is that it is presented as all-or-nothing. flag-day changes are always painful and should be avoided when possible and minimised when essential.

So I would much rather that in the first instance, systemd was 'just another daemon' like inetd and it was given some simple services to manage. Then people could become familiar with it without the risk of paralyzing their machine.

Then services could be gradually migrated across until eventually the only thing that the sysvinit started was systemd.

Then a mini-flag day when we discard sysvinit and run systemd as pid-1.

Incremental development has a long tradition of working well in Linux circles...

Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 21, 2011 13:08 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

In Fedora 14, systemd was optional. In Fedora 15, it was the default with a smaller number of services converted. In Fedora 16, a lot more will be and so on. This is incremental progress

Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 21, 2011 16:31 UTC (Wed) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link]

And my impression is that one of the design goals of systemd is to maintain significant backward compatibility with SysVinit. For example, it can use existing init scripts to manage services rather than its native configuration files. It can take advantage of cgroups for process management, but it's capable of working on systems without cgroup support. And so forth. You don't get the full power of the new system when you run it using the backward compatibility features, but it does work.

Tumbleweed backs off on systemd for now

Posted Sep 21, 2011 14:33 UTC (Wed) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link]

> I'm certain that systemd will also get there, eventually. The problem is that it's not there yet,
This is, again, just meaningless FUD. If you see an actual problem with systemd, then explain what it is, instead of nebulously asserting that it's "not there yet".

> and the system it tries to replace, even with all his warts, is solid and well understood.
Yeah right, except that it isn't.
Quoting from http://lwn.net/Comments/459725/ :
> If anyone, and I mean anyone, claims to "understand" the current init system - that person is full of crap. The current system is the nightmare everyone is claiming systemd is; it is buggy, complex, slow, and *extremely* fragile.