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Remnant: A new release process for Ubuntu?

Remnant: A new release process for Ubuntu?

Posted Sep 9, 2011 21:28 UTC (Fri) by xxiao (guest, #9631)
Parent article: Remnant: A new release process for Ubuntu?

to me this rolling release idea is simply insane.
the LTS and half-year release cycle worked greatly so far, IMHO


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Remnant: A new release process for Ubuntu?

Posted Sep 9, 2011 22:08 UTC (Fri) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link] (2 responses)

I'll turn that comment on its head.

It worked great when Canonical was primarily an integrator and not trying to do active software development tied to the Ubuntu distribution.

But tying an upstream project's roadmap so tightly to Ubuntu release schedule (including freezes) instead of treating it as an independent distro neutral release process (that is synced loosely with Ubuntu release management) comes at a real development cost.

But things have been changing. Canonical has taken on more and more client-side software projects as in-house development instead of relying on external "upstream" projects. Unity, Ensemble, Software Center, Uone all are being driven and developed on an Ubuntu distribution release cadence internally in canonical.

Look closely at what Scott is talking about. Look past the proposed solution and look at his problem statement..about how Canonical is choosing to organize manpower. What should be 6 months of development time for an upstream project is compressed into 13 weeks of usable development time because the "upstream" project development road map is tightly constrained by the distribution release needs.

I don't think you can say that approach to running "upstream" projects is working great for Canonical's business interest or for Ubuntu's project interests.

I'd propose a completely different solution. Canonical should divorce upstream project development from distribution release management as firmly as possible. Every single Canonical led upstream project should make it a goal to equally support Debian Experimental and Ubuntu as release targets in their project roadmap work. If they find that the internal Canonical project managers are pressuring employees to land features specifically for the Ubuntu target...that is a red flag for project health.

How a project does that, is an implementation detail. Some very well might want to use the rolling trunk model Scott suggests. Some might not. The point is is to let the upstream projects actually be upstream projects and not do their development _in_ ubuntu's compressed 13 weeks of usable pre-release out of every 6 months.

And as a counterpoint to this, Canonical's Launchpad team already understands the development cycle Scott is trying to layout. Look at how they have restructured their feature development and deployment model to be more responsive to stakeholders inside Canonical. They've been given more leeway to set their own cadence which is not tied to Ubuntu's release model even though as a service they are crucial to the Ubuntu release process that all the stakeholders are tied to. Fascinating bit of cadence management there.

-jef

Remnant: A new release process for Ubuntu?

Posted Sep 11, 2011 23:29 UTC (Sun) by cjwatson (subscriber, #7322) [Link] (1 responses)

I probably wouldn't have said this a few years ago, and I think the Launchpad leads would agree that there are still problems with their pace of landing changes, but I think there's quite a bit we could learn in Ubuntu from looking at LP at this point and it's leaps and bounds ahead of where it used to be. In particular, they have really rather good integration of QA and development, with very good processes and tools for deciding when it's safe to deploy, and a culture of doing something about deployment blockers promptly.

We've been talking with Launchpad people about using a common crash database implementation; they can do automatic daily analysis of the crashers people are currently hitting, whereas we have to wade through a bug swamp. I think that will make a nice difference when it happens.

Remnant: A new release process for Ubuntu?

Posted Sep 12, 2011 1:31 UTC (Mon) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link]

My Fedora has been reporting kernel oopses for quite some time, and the (rare) crashed application gets reported automatically in bugzilla for a year or so at least.


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