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Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 8:16 UTC (Thu) by kragilkragil2 (guest, #76172)
Parent article: Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Sure, there are a lot of promises but I don't see the usefullness atm.
Like with KDE4 it was supposed to know in which language I am typing and anotate my downloads with the URLs I downloaded them from. Does it do those thing by now?(Years later)

People seem to want simple, predictable, fast and well animated UI (as in hiding common pauses with animations).
Apple is king there. I personally think that "just" trying to be FOSS iOS wouldn't such a bad goal. QML on Linux with Wayland allows fast and well animated.
I don't see how this UI doesn't look messy and complicated to your average Joe. Getting those "activity" suggestions right will be long and painfull process and may be abandoned halfway.
But I guess KDE is not for starting with something simple and going from there, they need build for a future that may never come.

PS. Before people think that only hate change etc. I love Nokias Swipe-UI. It is super simple, fast, well animated and IMO superior to everything we have atm (minus the apps of course).
We need Nokia to release the code or start an FOSS implementation.
I guess I have code to write now. Bye.


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Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 9:58 UTC (Thu) by sebas (guest, #51660) [Link] (4 responses)

You are right that not all of our frameworks have picked up as well as we had hoped. The text input issue you outline works just fine for me though, in fact I don't remember switching language for spell-checking in ages, I simply stopped thinking about it. Nepomuk had a bit of a slow start, but is increasingly useful, although not used to its full potential yet. So there's surely some work left to do, but the foundations are there -- and let's face it, it's not something simple to do, it's actually quite natural that it takes a while until this kind of technology mature, which I think it has now with our 4.7 release.

From my experience as Plasma Active developer, I was surprised how well the recommendations already worked. A quick example: I was browsing the web, as I do quite often with Active on the tablet lately. When I wanted to go back to a page I had recently read, I thought that we'd really need to implement browser history. Turns out all I was looking for was actually in the recommendations panel -- I was pretty surprised that it already worked that well (sure, for this limited use case, but we're talking alpha here, so cut us some slack :)).

As to the software stack: It wasn't mentioned in the article, but Martin Grässlin, who develops and maintains Kwin, Plasma's window and compositing manager, presented our plans WRT to Wayland and how compositing and the related parts of our graphics stack look like in the future. Moreover, I've just got the graphics stack sorted, so that on my tablet, I'm running the compositing manager on top of OpenGL-ES now. This is part of our plan, of course.

The UI is not done yet, of course. I agree that it looks messy, and it has a fair amount of rough edges right now. This is something we're focusing on right now, basically trying to sort out as many papercuts as we can. The progress of the past week alone is really impressive, so pace-wise, I think we're doing quite fine. Again, it's not done yet, but work in progress. Another important aspect here is that in the design of Contour and Plasma Active, we've worked with professional UI and interaction designers from day one, and I think that also shows in many concepts, big and small. It's still an iterative process, since nobody has done anything like we plan before, but it looks pretty good already.

The interesting parts of Nokia's Swipe UI are all open source (again, after a period of a few months where Nokia had taken this part of the codebase behind closed doors). You can get them from Gitorious, what you are probably looking for is in the Qt components project there. QML makes it pretty easy to implement something like this, as you can see.

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 10:23 UTC (Thu) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link] (1 responses)

Yes... The impatience with nepomuk is kind of infuriating. It really takes a couple of years before something like that filters down to the applications. It's only this year, for instance, that Krita is integrating with nepomuk for image and resource tagging. But we're very happy with the ease of coding against nepomuk and will probably be using it more and more.

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 12:45 UTC (Thu) by walex (guest, #69836) [Link]

«The impatience with nepomuk is kind of infuriating. It really takes a couple of years before something like that filters down to the applications.»

Two years for taking advantage of a major API change is indeed a rather short time; some vital POSIX/Linux API new features have taken a decade to become only somewhat adopted.

I guess that most people think that KDE is a monolithic project with a plan and a wilful management instead of being a somewhat loosely coupled ecosystem where subprojects largely go ahead at their own pace.

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 10:38 UTC (Thu) by kragilkragil2 (guest, #76172) [Link] (1 responses)

Thanks for the insightful answer. I guess I have to try KDE SC again this fall.
Regarding Swipe-UI: The development of Qt components seems fairly active, which is great. So what would be the uninteresting parts that you would still have to be implemented? And why isn't Meego using those for their handset release?

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 17:47 UTC (Thu) by sebas (guest, #51660) [Link]

Two examples of what we put on top of Qt components, I think those give a good idea of the level of integration with other components we're talking about:

- Dataengines: those are small, specialized data providers for all kinds of data, system information, rss feeds, time, contacts, etc. Those dataengines are represented in Plasma Quick (which is Qt Quick + Plasma additions) as models. These dataengines provider services, which allow job-based call-backs. Of course these dataengines are not specific to Active, and we already have a sizable collection of all kinds of dataproviders. Glue in Plasma Quick makes these available to QML applications in a very intuitive way, meaning that you can just use a standard listview and use such a dataengine as model, either directly, or transformed / filtered / sorted.

- Resourcedelegates: Those are widgets that represent semantic "Things", the idea is basically that you ask the system (Nepomuk) for some kind of information ("search stuff with $foo in it", "give me all Images", "Contacts for the current activity", you name it). The resultset can be of one or more type, you pop this into a listview, and get different listitems, depending on their resourcetype. So a bookmark belonging to a resultset looks different than a contact. This happens entirely transparant to the developer.

You see that this is at a very high level of abstraction. There are more examples which we brought from the first versions of Plasma to QML, so in part Qt components are duplicating functionality that we already have had for quite some time, but on the other hand, the scope is simply different. Wether that's wasteful duplication or useful competition remains to be seen, but we do look at these projects as well, and there's at least exchange of ideas to some degree.

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 12:42 UTC (Thu) by walex (guest, #69836) [Link] (1 responses)

«People seem to want simple, predictable, fast and well animated UI»

That may be true, but a lot of sw development is motivated not by what users want, but what programmers think will look good on a portfolio or resume to get a new better job.

That's one of the major pushes for "featuritis" in open source/freedom software projects. Being a "plumber" or "janitor" who maintains a stable application whose author has grown bored with it and who has already reaped the "kudos" for it is not something a lot of people want to invest in; they want to invest in being the authors of new flashy features that look good in their portfolio or resume.

Desktop Summit: Plasma Active

Posted Aug 18, 2011 19:37 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link]

Much simpler: It is hard and boring to maintain stuff, while it is exciting and fun to play around with new things. No need to factor resumées in.


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