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Poettering: Why systemd?

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 3, 2011 14:34 UTC (Tue) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
In reply to: Poettering: Why systemd? by PaulWay
Parent article: Poettering: Why systemd?

Shorter: Everything should be standardized, but not if it requires me to change.


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Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 3, 2011 14:58 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (4 responses)

How do you expect that to really work? Foo distro does A, Bar distro does B. They are functionally equivalent. Either you have to standardize on one or the other or invent something new for standardization and it requires atleast one set of users to adopt something new to them.

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 3, 2011 15:32 UTC (Tue) by cry_regarder (subscriber, #50545) [Link]

I think he was being tongue in cheek...

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 3, 2011 21:33 UTC (Tue) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (2 responses)

Sorry, I seem to be using a form you're not familiar with. The "Shorter:" means I'm summarizing the previous poster's point. In this case, I'm suggesting that the complainers are only in favor of standardization as long as it doesn't force them to change. I agree that this is an unreasonable position. Since I think increased standardization is a good idea, this means people will have to accept some change.

I guess the situation with systemd reminds me of two other situations I've encountered. One was a disagreement between a mechanic and an engineer about cars. The mechanic liked carburetors because he was confident he could fix a carburetor if it ever broke; the engineer preferred fuel injectors because they were much less likely to break in the first place. It seems to me that the supporters of SysV with traditional scripts are like the mechanic; they like that they know how to modify the scripts but ignore that many of their hacks would be unnecessary with a better designed system.

The other is something that the Gnome maintainers commented about their decision to eliminate many configuration options. They said that many requests for new configuration options were really requests to fix bugs, but that the people requesting the "not broken" option didn't realize that the behavior they were describing shouldn't have been happening in the first place. I suspect, though I'm not sure, that many of the configuration tweaks that supporters of the current system are talking about are really bug fixes. They're asking that we maintain their ability to patch other people's breakage rather than move to a system that isn't so broken to start with.

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 3, 2011 21:38 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (1 responses)

the problem that you (and the Gnome maintainers) have is that you think that there is one definition of 'fixed' that applies to everyone.

a lot of the people who are disagreeing with you think that different people may want slightly different things.

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 3, 2011 21:43 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

It is easy to discuss these sort of these in abstract terms without any room for consensus or even letting the other person really know what the heck is being discussed. So in the particular blog post, there is a long list of things that are being standardized and fixed. If there is a disagreement about any of those, it should be voiced and in specific terms. Anything else is meaningless handwaving.


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