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Posted May 1, 2011 2:51 UTC (Sun) by drag (guest, #31333)In reply to: Missed some rows by david.a.wheeler
Parent article: Poettering: Why systemd?
If it doesn't run on OS X then it's NOT portable.
It seems to me that in these type of articles people are ready to harp about compatibility of dead and dying OSes, but completely ignore the portability to systems that people actually use.
Out of that chart you posted only FreeBSD and OpenBSD really matter. And those use their own init systems already. If anybody was going to spend the time to port them over to a new init system lets just hope that they choose something that is actually a improvement like Launchd.
GNU/kFreeBSD is a toy OS. Like Haiku or ReactOS it's all nice and interesting in it's own way, but it's not relevant and nobody actually uses it besides a tiny amount of people.
OpenSolaris is dead. It may thrash around for a few more years and it may exit out of the 'Dead Like Hurd' category and move back up into 'Toy OS like Haiku', but it's not going to amount to anything.
Portability doesn't mean the same thing now that it did 20 years ago. I wish people would stop pretending that it does.
Posted May 1, 2011 18:02 UTC (Sun)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (7 responses)
If it doesn't run on Windows it's NOT portable.
If it doesn't run on OS X then it's NOT portable.
Many Linux developers care only about UNIX-like systems. Windows is certainly not UNIX-like, and OS X is getting less and less UNIX-like with each release.
Bottom line: Windows and OS X aren't even on many Linux/UNIX developers' radars. They simply don't matter. (Sure, maybe in the mass market they're important, but in the little niche of UNIX/Linux software in which I'm content to work and play, Windows and Mac OS X are completely irrelevant.)
Posted May 1, 2011 18:19 UTC (Sun)
by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted May 1, 2011 18:25 UTC (Sun)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link]
Posted May 1, 2011 21:22 UTC (Sun)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (3 responses)
That means it supports the usual system calls and command line utilities so you can get basic stuff to run on it. It doesn't vouch for the underlying philosophy.
Even Windows NT used to be POSIX certified, way back when, and nobody would have confused that with a real Unix.
Posted May 2, 2011 13:32 UTC (Mon)
by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
[Link] (2 responses)
The so-called "Unix philosophy" most of the time boils down to dogmatism and retrogressiveness, so I honestly couldn't care less about it. Cyberax summed it up pretty well here.
Unlike the people bullshitting about the "Unix philosophy", people like the Mac OS X developers and Lennart Poettering actually have visions about where they want the system to go, and they're not afraid to point out the suckiness of traditional system components like X11 or sysvinit. And this is the reason why Linux and Mac OS X thrive, while nobody gives a fuck about traditional Unix systems and their "philosophy" anymore.
Posted May 2, 2011 14:40 UTC (Mon)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (1 responses)
I would recommend you take a look at
the Wikipedia page on »Unix philosophy«. That should disabuse you of that particular notion.
Note that there is nothing on that page that says »Don't go for better solutions to existing problems.« And with all philosophies, this stuff is not meant to encourage one to stop thinking on one's own. That way lies blind fanaticism.
Posted May 2, 2011 15:19 UTC (Mon)
by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784)
[Link]
Posted May 1, 2011 21:22 UTC (Sun)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link]
Exactly! You've finally figured out who is and who isn't relevant in the UNIX world.
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The so-called "Unix philosophy" most of the time boils down to dogmatism and retrogressiveness, [
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Having looked at that, I really fail to be persuaded that systemd violates Unix philosophy even half as severely as most of the Lennartware-haters say it does.
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