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Poettering: Why systemd?

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted Apr 30, 2011 13:22 UTC (Sat) by mezcalero (subscriber, #45103)
In reply to: Poettering: Why systemd? by handock
Parent article: Poettering: Why systemd?

> They didn't.

Ah, right. So your distro is spawning a /dev/log syslog as one of the first things at boot? Can you point me to which one that is?

> No. It just highlights the problem with systemd. In any other init system
> I could just edit a small shell script and change the path. In systemd
> I have to edit a C file and recompile and link.

Yeah, thing is we don't really support broken setups with systemd. Sorry for that. Also, we already made clear that we want to standardize behaviour of Linux, and that includes that we ensure that people fix their broken OSes and for example move kexec to away from a broken path to the right path.

> (And BTW calling external
> programs from C is not the same as your advertisement suggestion:
> "Built-in kexec support". And this goes for a lot of items on your list)

That refers to the fact that we have "systemctl kexec" and thelike.

> The other possibility (and apparently your favorite) is to force every Linux
> user to place kexec in /sbin, similar to your brilliant idea to move /var/run to /run
> just because you cannot handle a simple /var mount-point in systemd.

Hmm, I am not forcing anybody. You can adopt systemd if you wish. I make an offer with systemd, you don't have to take it, it's free software. Note however, that *all* big distros have commited to the /var/run to /run move, including Ubuntu, regardless if they want to do systemd or not. So, complain to them, too, not just to me. Ever thought that maybe if everybody loves /run this might be the right thing and you are just misinformed?

> No. Nobody forces you to mount every available kernel fs by default.

No, but they aren't any useful if they aren't mounted. Note btw, that we actually don't mount them all, to optimize things. We just place automount points in /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc and similar places, which are backed by the real fs only on demand, causing the loading of the backing kmod only when needed.


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Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted Apr 30, 2011 13:24 UTC (Sat) by mezcalero (subscriber, #45103) [Link] (1 responses)

> > The other possibility (and apparently your favorite) is to force every Linux
> > user to place kexec in /sbin, similar to your brilliant idea to move /var/run to /run
> > just because you cannot handle a simple /var mount-point in systemd.

> Hmm, I am not forcing anybody. You can adopt systemd if you wish. I make an offer with systemd, you don't have to take it, it's free software. Note however, that *all* big distros have commited to the /var/run to /run move, including Ubuntu, regardless if they want to do systemd or not. So, complain to them, too, not just to me. Ever thought that maybe if everybody loves /run this might be the right thing and you are just misinformed?

Oh, and BTW. If your really hate those mount points so much, you can remove them. Just mask their units by linking them to /dev/null in /etc/systemd/system/.

We just ship good defaults, that's all.

Poettering: Why systemd?

Posted May 11, 2011 18:36 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Shipping good defaults is also profoundly un-Unixlike. How will people learn how to maintain their systems if they don't have to personally grind every hinge into shape?

;}


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