Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 1:04 UTC (Fri) by csigler (subscriber, #1224)
In reply to: Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04 by madscientist
Parent article: Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

I don't know if anyone else is like me, but I was too much of a klutz to use a window manager set to focus-follows-mouse. Back when I first used graphical terminals -- early nineties -- others I worked with had FFM set.

I used it at first but I tend to make arm motions, even when I'm supposed to be sitting quietly at my terminal. I kept accidentally bumping the mouse so the window I was working in would lose focus. Needless to say this was frustrating, so I converted to click-to-focus and never looked back.

That being said, a lot of the advanced hackers I know favor FFM *shrug*

Clemmitt

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 7:43 UTC (Fri) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link] (3 responses)

I resemble this comment (I first used X in the mid-90s, when FFM was still the ubiquitous default.

It seems to me that the FFM model is fine if you've got a trackball, or one of those little strain-gauge joysticks in the middle of your keyboard, but with a mouse it's awful unless you've got a desk the size of Liechtenstein.

It also seems to me that the actual usability problem with click-to-focus platforms is that they are usually also raise-on-focus.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 10:07 UTC (Fri) by csigler (subscriber, #1224) [Link]

> It also seems to me that the actual usability problem with
> click-to-focus platforms is that they are usually also
> raise-on-focus.

Aha! Now we're getting down to brass tacks. Doesn't raise-on-focus come about through combining click-to-focus with the (I assume) universal default of click-to-raise? If the setting was -- stupid example -- double-click-to-raise, perhaps this wouldn't necessarily be the case.

As it is I've come to expect raise-on-focus, even if it is "wrong behaviour" for a window manager/desktop environment. If it weren't raise-on-focus, it would feel strange to me after all these years and I'd complain.

Clemmitt

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 17, 2011 0:47 UTC (Sun) by speedster1 (guest, #8143) [Link] (1 responses)

> It seems to me that the FFM model is fine if you've got a trackball, or
> one of those little strain-gauge joysticks in the middle of your keyboard,
> but with a mouse it's awful unless you've got a desk the size of
> Liechtenstein.

I don't understand about the mouse part -- a mousepad-worth of space is plenty of room for me.
Only problem I could see would be with a playful pet cat who kept batting the mouse between windows whenever you let go to type ;)

Note: as mentioned by another commenter, I use sloppy focus rather than classical FFM

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 18, 2011 10:24 UTC (Mon) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

Mice on small desks get jostled, and even sloppy focus is vulnerable to "oops, mouse got jostled over active area of another window". My preferred method of refocusing is the keyboard, which has the further advantage that it means I don't have to reach for the pointing device to change focus.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 18:58 UTC (Fri) by clump (subscriber, #27801) [Link] (8 responses)

I used it at first but I tend to make arm motions, even when I'm supposed to be sitting quietly at my terminal. I kept accidentally bumping the mouse so the window I was working in would lose focus. Needless to say this was frustrating, so I converted to click-to-focus and never looked back.

This is precisely the problem that sloppy focus solves! You get all of the benefits of FFM, plus you can toss your mouse around... and still be focused.*

Friends, I dare say FFM users are merely those who have not yet been 'saved' by sloppy focus. Try sloppy, there is no turning back.

* Per Wikipedia: "It allows input to continue to be collected by the last focused window when the mouse pointer is moved away from any window, such as over a menubar or desktop area."

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:03 UTC (Fri) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link] (2 responses)

I disagree. The bike shed should definitely be blue.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:52 UTC (Fri) by csigler (subscriber, #1224) [Link] (1 responses)

So... the blue bike shed is... focus-follows-mouse... ... no, wait, it's click-to-focus! ... Right...? ;^)

Clemmitt

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:59 UTC (Fri) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link]

No, those are green and purple, respectively. Given the context, blue should be abundantly clear.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 17, 2011 13:26 UTC (Sun) by madscientist (subscriber, #16861) [Link] (4 responses)

Do any window managers still implement the traditional FFM? I don't think I've seen one that _didn't_ use the sloppy focus model in a long time. Certainly the Gnome window managers I've used all implement sloppy focus.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 17, 2011 13:51 UTC (Sun) by clump (subscriber, #27801) [Link] (2 responses)

There's definitely a difference.

gconftool-2 -t string -s /apps/metacity/general/focus_mode [mouse|sloppy]

Any previously focused window will lose focus if you mouse over the desktop in "mouse", though "sloppy" retains focus.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 17, 2011 16:12 UTC (Sun) by madscientist (subscriber, #16861) [Link] (1 responses)

I know there's a difference (I used FVWM for a long time which had both). I even believe that both are available in the underlying engine. However, my "Windows" preferences dialog has one option: "Select windows when the mouse moves over them". When I select that I get sloppy focus behavior. I'm not sure how one would switch to "non-sloppy" except by using a gconf editor. I don't know why one would prefer non-sloppy behavior.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 17, 2011 17:16 UTC (Sun) by dark (guest, #8483) [Link]

Cats :)

I have strict focus, and when the danger of cats walking on the keyboard goes to threat level "red" I can move the mouse to the root window so that keyboard input doesn't go anywhere.

Ubuntu reaffirms Unity plan for 11.04

Posted Apr 17, 2011 14:54 UTC (Sun) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

KWin has "FFM" and "Strict FFM" for sloppy and (standard?; I've only been on Linux since FC5) FFM. I have seen quirks in Metacity on CentOS (which is the only place I use GNOME) where the focus would also change when the mouse moves some distance over a window which I find...weird.

Personally, I prefer the XMonad and KWin behaviors of only switching window focus when the mouse crosses a window boundary. Input focus also follows window focus and the desktop isn't "no focus land".