GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 19:37 UTC (Wed) by Pawlerson (guest, #74136)
Parent article: GNOME 3.0 released

"Used by millions of people across the
world, it is the most popular desktop environment for GNU/Linux and
UNIX-type operating systems."

I wonder how do you know this? Even if this is true I'm sure Gnome3 will change the situation. I've got the feeling someone has shot himself in the foot with this release. It's even worse than KDE 4.0, because KDE didn't turn user experience by 180 degrees.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 19:54 UTC (Wed) by Frej (guest, #4165) [Link] (2 responses)

I'd really like to know how you turn user experience 180 degrees? Flip it over?

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 20:14 UTC (Wed) by Pawlerson (guest, #74136) [Link] (1 responses)

Bring something like Gnome-shell and move some options to different places or hide them completely.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 20:48 UTC (Wed) by ewan (guest, #5533) [Link]

move some options

This is GNOME. It doesn't have options.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 21:12 UTC (Wed) by handock (guest, #73633) [Link] (27 responses)

Yes. it's absolutely awful.
Where can I change the font settings?
(I want unhinted fonts with vrgb subpixels)
Where can I change the ugly default font?
The list goes on and on.

This doesn't feel like Linux anymore;
actually this is worse than Windows, because
in Win7 you can actually tweak everything if
you look deep enough. But here you are stuck
with unbearable defaults.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 21:17 UTC (Wed) by luya (subscriber, #50741) [Link] (23 responses)

Install gnome-tweak-tool to change setting. Be in mind not all of them such as colour are implemented.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 21:32 UTC (Wed) by handock (guest, #73633) [Link] (8 responses)

So it took them 9 years to come up with
this release and I have to install an additional
tool to change the most basic font setting?

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 21:36 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (6 responses)

but you aren't supposed to change the font settings, the desire to do so makes you an 'advanced user', not part of their target market.

or so I understand from watching this train wreck.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 22:34 UTC (Wed) by ebassi (subscriber, #54855) [Link] (2 responses)

they are not "basic". if you can articulate the difference between any of these settings then you are (like me) a geek, and not a generic user.

for those, like you and me, there is a tweak tool, hosted on gnome.org, that allows you to tweak the configuration at your liking. it's easy to hack on, and it doesn't even require installation to try it out. it's called gnome-tweak-tool:

http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-tweak-tool

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 23:44 UTC (Wed) by dougsk (guest, #25954) [Link] (1 responses)

... then the MS Windows desktop is only for geeks then?

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 2:17 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link]

Whatever you think about GNOME 3, it's certainly the case that Windows 7 is for geeks, yes. Normal users get it shoved down their throats however, by hardware vendors and lots of advertising.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 8, 2011 4:13 UTC (Fri) by ThinkRob (guest, #64513) [Link] (2 responses)

> but you aren't supposed to change the font settings, the desire to do so makes you an 'advanced user', not part of their target market.

No, the desire to change font settings makes you a normal user. GNOME's misguided notion of what users want is what makes you an "advanced" user.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Dec 30, 2014 3:05 UTC (Tue) by ThinkRob (guest, #64513) [Link] (1 responses)

In case anyone's reading through this, BTW, GNOME got a lot better since 3.0. Nowadays I actually use it for my personal laptop's DE, and I'm quite happy with it.

Three and a half years of development can improve a lot of things! :)

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Dec 30, 2014 3:19 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

Wow, has it been 3.5 years already?? That went fast.

Only 6 years until Gnome's next break-the-world release. :)

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 7, 2011 4:56 UTC (Thu) by bluss (guest, #47454) [Link]

You might as well say that it took us 13.7 billion years to make GNOME 3 from scratch.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 21:47 UTC (Wed) by nyfle (guest, #72967) [Link] (13 responses)

From what I've seen, gnome-tweak-tool seems to have been very much an afterthought; I could throw together a more comprehensive tool in an evening. And I haven't touched GTK in years...

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 22:19 UTC (Wed) by ebassi (subscriber, #54855) [Link] (12 responses)

I honestly, and thoroughly, would like to see you even try and accomplish that. though *now* it's easy: you already have a template.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 7, 2011 1:18 UTC (Thu) by csigler (subscriber, #1224) [Link] (9 responses)

> I honestly, and thoroughly, would like to see you even try
> and accomplish that. though *now* it's easy: you already
> have a template.

Yes, THAT'S what we need, a desktop project that responds to user complaints by belittling those users and baiting them to do better.

IMHO, an appropriate and non-belligerent response would be something like, "I hope you'll try using the tweak tool some more and report any bugs or request improvements in our bugzilla; we always welcome patches to improve our work."

Clemmitt

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 7, 2011 7:44 UTC (Thu) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link] (8 responses)

Yes, THAT'S what we need, users who complain by whinging incessantly on forums about how godawful everything is now and how it was obviously better in the 1990s and anyone who can't see otherwise is an idiot and why do they want to kill the free desktop :(

If people can carry on like that, then why don't they do better? Since it's obvious to everyone how much better their ideas are and only an idiot would think otherwise, and it's really easy to do too.

Turns out a bit of politeness and common courtesy (otherwise known as 'not being rude, abrasive, and generally making yourself unwelcome') goes a long way. Who knew?

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 7, 2011 16:14 UTC (Thu) by csigler (subscriber, #1224) [Link]

> Turns out a bit of politeness and common courtesy
> (otherwise known as 'not being rude, abrasive, and
> generally making yourself unwelcome') goes a long way.
> Who knew?

Indeed. Answering user complaints negatively or impolitely is counterproductive. Two wrongs have never and will never make a right. (But three lefts make a right, just one block up....)

Clemmitt

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 9:50 UTC (Mon) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link] (6 responses)

>If people can carry on like that, then why don't they do better?

Because they honestly believe that doing nothing *is* doing better.

I can't speak for Gnome 3 as I've not tried it, but there have been several 'upgrades' in the free software world over the last decade which in my opinion would have been improved by simply rolling the clock back 2 years.

It's infuriating when something you're using not only doesn't improve, but gets *actively worse*, and then any complaints are silenced with cries to do better - when all you really wanted was the thing not to be messed with in the first place.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 10:30 UTC (Mon) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link] (5 responses)

Er, but is anyone forcing you to upgrade? If everything is perfect now, then you can just stay there and never upgrade: pretend the new versions don't exist. Job done. Changing software for its own sake is absolutely pointless. You only change it because you want improvements, surely ...

(Also, 'worse' is obviously subjective -- the people making it, the distributions shipping it, and the userbase of the latter who hasn't revolted and forced them back to the old version clearly don't agree. Try replacing 'the new version is worse' with 'I don't like the new version'.)

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 10:40 UTC (Mon) by jrn (subscriber, #64214) [Link] (4 responses)

> You only change it because you want improvements, surely

Sometimes people upgrade software because of security bugs or for the sake of compatibility with other (modern) software they use. It's true this isn't about force. Perhaps a more helpful meme should be "if you don't like our release management, why don't you help out with code review" instead of "if you don't like the latest regression, why don't you fix it".

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 10:50 UTC (Mon) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link] (3 responses)

OK, so it sounds like the classic case where your views and those of upstream have diverged so far that you need to fork or use another desktop environment.

FWIW, the same arguments were made in the same (if not higher) quantity, with the same volume/force, for GNOME 2.0's release. And also when they switched the button ordering around (anyone remember GARNOME?). Yet here we are today, and GNOME still has a userbase. *shrug*

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 19:40 UTC (Mon) by jrn (subscriber, #64214) [Link]

What are you arguing against? I never even said I dislike GNOME 3. I was suggesting a productive way for frustrated people to help out.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 22:06 UTC (Mon) by jmorris42 (guest, #2203) [Link] (1 responses)

> Yet here we are today, and GNOME still has a userbase.

But that isn't the question. Will GNOME3 do as a the developers believe, bring in new users? I say no.

Because I deal with end users and there is no way in heck my users will ever see GNOME3. The support pain would be unbearable so I ain't going there. When I hit a point where I'm building a system image to push to my patron lab PCs and the choice is GNOME3 or XFCE I'm not going to make GNOME the default anymore, if things don't get a lot better before then I doubt GNOME3 will even get installed.

I might (but can see no reason to) be able to retrain staff to adjust to GNOME3 but the general public? Madness!

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 22:34 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

"But that isn't the question. Will GNOME3 do as a the developers believe, bring in new users? I say no."

I think it too early to say one way or the other but from the feedback we have received so far, it appears that new users like it much better than long time users of GNOME 2 who are just trying it out now. I am not surprised about that.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 7, 2011 12:07 UTC (Thu) by nyfle (guest, #72967) [Link] (1 responses)

Maybe when Gnome 3.x has matured a little and I can actually use it to power my desktop, like I can with Metacity/gnome-panel now, I'll revisit gnome-tweak-tool. And if it's still a skeleton of a customisation app, I'll share my accomplishments.

And FWIW, it wouldn't be easy because I "already have a template"; it would be easy because I've used Gnome for nearly ten years and I can, just as easily, recall the number of "tweaks" and preferences that have been hidden from view and/or removed from this average user's desktop experience.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 11, 2011 2:20 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link]

Sorry, what are you complaining about? There is plenty of choice on Linux if you don't like GNOME. Imho GNOME 3 is brilliant - executing a vision ruthlessly, I respect that. And it actually works. If it doesn't work for you - well, too bad, try XFCE or KDE until GNOME 3 has gotten the features you need again.

Or stay on GNOME 2.x, not hard at all - openSUSE 11.4 is just released with GNOME 2.32 and will be maintained for the next 2 years.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 21:52 UTC (Wed) by sumanah (guest, #59891) [Link] (2 responses)

Check out this article about the history of Cantarell and about changing your font settings in GNOME 3.

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 6, 2011 23:36 UTC (Wed) by kenmoffat (subscriber, #4807) [Link] (1 responses)

I'm running enough of 2.30 to use epiphany on the installation where I'm logged in at the moment. For some reason, that link on tweaking Cantarell is unreadable until I enlarge it several times.

But - why should a different font be a major part of the desktop experience ? If I don't have the specified font, I expect freetype to produce a workable version of the glyphs. Gnome managed to do that for years, and it was the one area where kde4 improved on kde3. Ocasionally, that doesn't look pretty (for some of the most obscure European glyphs, like k with caron, on my machines freetype falls back to freefont, and some of the glyphs in that are somewhat anaemic). But for almost everything I encounter, the existing fonts work perfectly well.

At the moment I'm trying to bite my tongue, but this gives every impression of "change for the sake of it".

ken

GNOME 3.0 released

Posted Apr 7, 2011 5:17 UTC (Thu) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link]

I wonder if they finally eliminated Emacs edit-key bindings. They have been working toward that for a long time, first by wiping it out of the dialog box, and then deleting the on-line documentation in gconf.