Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
On the other hand, one of the things I've always enjoyed in Linux development has been how it's stayed interesting by evolving. So maybe it's less 'fun' in the crazy-go-lucky sense, but on the other hand the much bigger development team and the support brought in by all the companies around Linux has also added its own very real fun. It's a lot more social, for example. So the project may have lost something, but it gained something else to compensate."
Posted Feb 9, 2011 16:16 UTC (Wed)
by lispler (guest, #72611)
[Link]
Posted Feb 9, 2011 17:15 UTC (Wed)
by jmm82 (guest, #59425)
[Link] (27 responses)
I love the irony now that Android/Linux is destroying Nokia's business.
Posted Feb 9, 2011 17:34 UTC (Wed)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
[Link] (25 responses)
Posted Feb 9, 2011 17:53 UTC (Wed)
by dmaxwell (guest, #14010)
[Link] (9 responses)
Posted Feb 9, 2011 18:15 UTC (Wed)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (8 responses)
Though it seems that Android is quickly gobbling up the mobile world. It's almost like 80-s when Microsoft+Intel quickly killed off everything else except the high-end niche Apple.
Posted Feb 9, 2011 22:39 UTC (Wed)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link] (7 responses)
Ever heard of a sunk cost? This is no way to make a business decision.
Posted Feb 9, 2011 23:30 UTC (Wed)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Feb 10, 2011 4:02 UTC (Thu)
by jmm82 (guest, #59425)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Feb 10, 2011 7:32 UTC (Thu)
by leifbk (guest, #35665)
[Link]
That said, even as a Norwegian, I don't think I would go for a company name with troll in it.
Posted Feb 10, 2011 8:42 UTC (Thu)
by oblio (guest, #33465)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 10, 2011 16:11 UTC (Thu)
by jmm82 (guest, #59425)
[Link]
First I think they are patent trolls. Then mailing list trolls. Next, I think they make those plastic lucky charms with the neon hair which people put on their keychain. Finally, I remember they do stuff with qt.
Posted Feb 10, 2011 13:53 UTC (Thu)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 11, 2011 1:07 UTC (Fri)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link]
Actually it's the definition of failure. Never forget RFC1925. What you said is just truth number 3: given enough time you may make any product usable (think Windows 7), but it'll be big, unwieldy and slow (again: think Windows 7). If the product is not ready when market demands it and concurrents offer their own version then it is a failure - end of story. There are some window of opportunity, but it's limited - about a year, not much more. The case of Dreamcast and PlayStation2 is great example: Dreamcast was released in Japan two years before PlayStation2 - and did very well there (till SEGA pulled the plug), but in other regions it only had a year - and so quickly lost. Android tablets are just now starting to appear so MeeGo has about one year to catch up. And it does not look like it'll do that.
Posted Feb 9, 2011 18:02 UTC (Wed)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link] (13 responses)
Posted Feb 10, 2011 14:06 UTC (Thu)
by yaap (subscriber, #71398)
[Link] (12 responses)
Then it could either mean:
Curiously most people only see 1. It doesn't seem logical at this stage.
Particularly because Android doesn't look so dangerous in the long run. When you're late, the proper action is not to chase, but to leap-frog. Meego can be such a leapfrog:
Similarly, people interpret Elop comment on Meego as "Meego will be killed". This seems very weird to me. Elop already said previously that Meego was the future. He got Palm UI guy to join. The QT guys went dark on their UI in advance of an announcement soon. The only thing Elop really said was that Meego was too late (just after saying Symbian was dead, and there was a lot of smart guys at Nokia, just talking Meego). So I would rather interpret this as Elop being (justifiably) pissed about Meego delay, and wanting to push more Meego devices more quickly. While at the same time getting a short term fix. How people jumped to "Elop said Meego is canned" seems a wild interpretation to me, not in line with recent events.
Anyway, just idle speculation. Let's see tomorrow. But dumping Meego at this stage seems really, really brain damaged. We need the power of computers on phones, it's coming and will be baseline within 4 to 5 years. Apple with iOS son of OS-X has all they need. Android and WP7 can be seen as nice for phones, but still way too short.
And by the way, don't get me started on security. Yes, the principles of Android are sound. But there are bugs, and then the only way to deal is quick updates.
Posted Feb 11, 2011 8:35 UTC (Fri)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (9 responses)
>London, Feb. 11, 2011 - Nokia and Microsoft today announced plans to form a broad strategic partnership that would use their complementary strengths and expertise to create a new global mobile ecosystem.
No way ex-MS exec can do anything good. Bye-bye, Nokia! Hope you ditch MS fast enough.
Posted Feb 11, 2011 8:52 UTC (Fri)
by jjs (guest, #10315)
[Link]
Sigh, another good company killed by MS.
Posted Feb 11, 2011 9:50 UTC (Fri)
by forlwn (guest, #63934)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Feb 11, 2011 10:07 UTC (Fri)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link] (4 responses)
Apple and Google truly changed this market. In the years that followed, MS wasn't fast but it delivered Win7 for phones, which is IMO a modern platform.
What has Nokia accomplished in all these years? They kept retrying the same Symbian formula, and never delivering on Meego.
Posted Feb 11, 2011 12:24 UTC (Fri)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (3 responses)
MeeGO needs just one more year to mature. Which they are going to need to adapt Nokia for WP7 anyway.
If you look at timing, it took Google 3 years to produce a good phone OS, ditto for Apple. So MeeGO is actually quite on par with its competitors.
Posted Feb 11, 2011 13:14 UTC (Fri)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link] (2 responses)
IMHO it wasn't only Symbian opposition that kept Maemo/Meego from flying. Apple and Google were dashing ahead, and Maemo/Meego engineering kept doing one idiosyncratic change after the other. How has any of that rewriting done them any good?
Posted Feb 12, 2011 22:41 UTC (Sat)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (1 responses)
The decision to rewrite it in QT was a bold move, which would have paid (IMO) if they allowed it work.
Posted Feb 13, 2011 7:34 UTC (Sun)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link]
Rewriting in Qt cost them two years and most of their developers (all four of them) when they were already a year behind the curve. It was a clumsy and foolish decision.
"Allow" it to work?? You make it sound so effortless. Nokia needed to expend MASSIVE effort to catch up.
Posted Feb 11, 2011 10:23 UTC (Fri)
by yaap (subscriber, #71398)
[Link] (1 responses)
From another Nokia PR [1], Meego is presented as for computers not handsets: "MeeGo Computers". It's out of the Mobile division and in the "Smart Devices" division. And just a future looking "project", not a platform. Well, my wish to get an interesting super phone this year seems to have gone down the drain.
Hopefully Meego will still advance and can be resurrected for phones later on. And I agree this could just be wishful thinking from me just as in the post above ;)
You can check the reactions on Nokia own website/blog [2]. Doesn't look too good. Maybe this will make sure Meego forges on, just so Nokia can have some other option open for later.
[1] http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressreleas...
Posted Feb 11, 2011 14:06 UTC (Fri)
by yaap (subscriber, #71398)
[Link]
Posted Feb 12, 2011 15:34 UTC (Sat)
by sorpigal (guest, #36106)
[Link] (1 responses)
Hey, that's a great point. If you build a system that is compatible with its competitor but also offers a superset of features and a superior environment, you can't help but win. I have a problem with the name "Meego" though; is there some way we could call it "OS/2" instead?
Posted Feb 12, 2011 18:05 UTC (Sat)
by yaap (subscriber, #71398)
[Link]
Marketing your product aggressively is critical, and you can't afford to be too proud about your product and naturally expecting people will flock to you because of course it's so technically good. That was IBM attitude, and there's too much of that in Nokia too --- even with Symbian.
And besides marketing, you need to stand on your own strengths too. But there a real linux distro on a phone had a lot of potential.
Posted Feb 10, 2011 0:28 UTC (Thu)
by AndreE (guest, #60148)
[Link]
Posted Feb 10, 2011 13:41 UTC (Thu)
by hitmark (guest, #34609)
[Link]
Posted Feb 9, 2011 22:52 UTC (Wed)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link]
> I really do enjoy plodding around in the details. Not because I'm humble, but simply because it's what I'm interested in. Maybe that accounts for you thinking I have my feet on the ground.
Great answer.
Posted Feb 10, 2011 0:27 UTC (Thu)
by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Feb 10, 2011 2:11 UTC (Thu)
by jhardin (guest, #3297)
[Link]
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
The leaked message from their CEO says they are being killed from three sides: the iPhone at the high end, Android at the high end and in the middle, and cheap Chinese phones at the low end. If I were in their shoes I'd just order the engineers to start cranking out some high-quality Android phones in a hurry so they have something to sell that people might buy.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
There are some customers, particularly in EDA, who pay for licenses to use QT in proprietary code as a cross-platform solution. They could spin off the QT group (re-creating Trolltech in effect) or sell it.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Sheesh, these Americans and their corporations :p
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Well, there are a difference?
It's not like their product is a failure, it's just not yet completely ready.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
1) the deal is done, and I think it sucks;
2) the deal would be stupid as it obviously sucks, so now way.
- the future is smartphone as computer. Also Android is excellent for phones, it falls short for a full computer (same for ChromeOs). The Moto Atrix in netbook mode just provide a web browser, that's too little. Meego can provide a full computer experience;
- Meego can run Android apps at some point. So it can be from a user point of view a superset of Android --- do everything Android can do, and more. It would be a nice way for Nokia to push Android to low end in a short time.
Because of customization from handset vendors, it's very late on Android, if it ever happens. And when it happens, it's a full image (> 150 MB) for the next version. And as it relies on handset vendors who don't seem to care it won't change quickly.
Now with Meego and a true linux distro, Nokia has in hands all the tools to push incrementals changes, as in Debian of Fedora. And it wouldn't cost much to them to do it propely. It can be a "black swan" event: just wait for a ig security issue and show you're ready. In the current situation, security in smartphone is just begging for problems.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
....
>- Nokia would adopt Windows Phone as its principal smartphone strategy, innovating on top of the platform in areas such as imaging, where Nokia is a market leader.
Nokia + Microsoft = noGO
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
They both think that Microsoft still has the same marketing potential they once had.
The world changed, and today any of them are anymore synonym of granted quality.
I just hope any of them will embrace any kind of patent wars against Android.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
[2] http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-fro...
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Anyway, it still says "Meego computers". Let's see what they announce at MWC.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
If anything, the current events may have deflated some egos at Nokia though.
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
Linus Torvalds: looking back, looking forward (ITWire)
I love how he bashes creationism :)
iTWire: So there is no pressure at school for the kids to learn intelligent design and the like?
Nice one :o)
LT: Creationism/intelligent design? Hell, no. We made sure that our kids go to good schools.
I love how he bashes creationism :)