KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
Posted Jan 28, 2011 22:23 UTC (Fri) by alecs1 (guest, #46699)In reply to: KDE 4.6 released by cowsandmilk
Parent article: KDE 4.6 released
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248828
Well, a few minutes of using multi-head will uncover a big bunch of inconsistencies and problems, annoyances for a technical user, possible problems for everyone else,
ex. Xorg: why can the cursor go to areas are not drawn?!
ex. driver: radeon cannot display a half o the cursor on a screen and another on the other when it is at the edget between the screens.
ex. KDE settings: krandrtray may or may not apply the settings it has just accepted.
ex. apps: Opera and Thunderbird have the strangest ways of choosing were to place their pop-ups and menus.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 23:29 UTC (Fri)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (16 responses)
every time I reboot it looses the monitor configuration
I can't seem to control which monitor the panel appears on
but as to your issues, remember that for the software, you just have one large monitor, so apps like Opera and Thunderbird are trying to put their popups in places that aren't going to interfere with other activity, that frequently means that it ends up on another monitor.
Posted Jan 30, 2011 14:24 UTC (Sun)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link] (11 responses)
Which means Plasma 4.7 will suffer from the same issues. And so will 4.8. Until someone decides he/she is willing to help test bugfixes. The developers are more than willing but there's nothing they can do without either a tester or a crystal ball.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 12:06 UTC (Mon)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (1 responses)
Most desktop graphics cards today have more than one output connector. Pretty much any laptop lets you connect an external monitor in addition to the LCD panel.
You're seriously trying to tell us that the apparent multi-head issues are so supremely uninteresting to KDE developers that no one can be bothered to hook up a spare monitor to their graphics card – even for ten minutes – to see whether there is anything to those reports?
Posted Jan 31, 2011 23:47 UTC (Mon)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link]
Multi-head is not used a lot, there are few use cases for it. It's not a complete obscure use case either but still the demand for it is so low nobody is capable or willing to step up and fix it. You can blame either developers or users for that - I guess you should keep in mind that there are simply more pressing matters. Most developers have about 100 times more things they'd like to do and fix than time on their hands :D
Posted Jan 31, 2011 17:35 UTC (Mon)
by thoffman (guest, #3063)
[Link] (8 responses)
Anyone with a non-antique laptop and a spare monitor has multi-head if they want it. This is not rocket science.
And it's very important to get right, not just for multi-head day to day use, but plug-and-play. Presentation mode in conferences is crucial. I need to to just plug in to a random projector and display, without having to restart the X Server or mess around with configuration panels.
Fortunately, this is pretty solid now on my Lenovo running Ubuntu & Gnome.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 18:22 UTC (Mon)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link] (3 responses)
This sort of comment makes me so sad... Behaving like you really don't know how volunteer-based open source projects work. You do know, I hope, that nobody is paid to work on kwin? That nobody is paid to work on plasma? That among the couple of hundred KDE developers only one or two work on kwin? It's not a company where you can redirect resources to please those users who don't pay, don't contribute, who do nothing but whine, every release.
I suppose that this kind of smart-ass comment makes you feel good about yourself, superior to those stupid KDE hackers, whatever. You're smart enough to use Gnome, after all. Good for you!
But you'd better get the sourcecode from git, use your super-duper setup and fix that bug and join the project. That will earn you real respect and will make you feel really good about yourself for real.
As for presentation mode -- that hasn't been a problem with KDE 4 for a long time now. krandrtray makes that work plenty fine. It's just some weird multi-head setups that seem to cause problems. And nobody who complains every release about those problems, nobody ever actually steps up to help.
That is not what open source is about. Scratch your itch, dammit.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 22:24 UTC (Mon)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (1 responses)
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the KDE developers need to decide whether they want to produce a dependable desktop environment where users can rely on bugs or regressions being addressed (in which case some developers will eventually have to condescend to working on the unpopular tasks, too) or whether they want to provide a free-for-all for hobbyist developers (in which case every developer gets to do what they please), with users being allowed to tag along for the ride as long as they don't make themselves too obnoxious. In other words, is the KDE project's primary goal providing entertainment for its developers or a service for its users?
Summarily dissing people with legitimate claims about bugs in KDE as »whiners« who do not contribute is a cheap shot. KDE is a large and complicated body of code and it is not as if someone could, just like so, pull down the source and fix a few bugs that even the KDE developers themselves seem to be either afraid or else incapable of addressing. Also, for all you know, those »whiners« may be contributing to the FLOSS community at large in untold other ways.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 23:52 UTC (Mon)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link]
So aseigo could of course tell ppl he won't accept new features but wants them to work on fixing every darn issue they don't personally care about - KDE would quickly wither and die.
So for the long term, KDE has to make sure it's products are good enough - and at the same time, keep working in and on KDE fun. It is a delicate balance and usually minor features and issues are the victim of it.
That's why it is good to have some corporate funding - they often pay for the boring, finishing touch ;-)
Posted Jan 31, 2011 22:41 UTC (Mon)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link]
the amount of money we are talking about to equip some of the developers with a second monitor to be able to replicate a very common user environment (laptop with an external screen) is very small
Posted Jan 31, 2011 23:31 UTC (Mon)
by aseigo (guest, #18394)
[Link] (3 responses)
multiscreen is widely used and cared for and works rather well. multihead is not. you can go back to kde3 or even kde2 and see this was the case even then.
i did fix a number of multihead issues for Plasma Desktop 4.6, however, and it is generally working. kwin needs some fixes, still, though. (patches welcome.) it is generally working now, though there are a couple of remaining known issues (like how user visible strings in plasma-desktop are not translated on screens other than the first one .. though i just fixed that one too :)
Posted Jan 31, 2011 23:59 UTC (Mon)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (1 responses)
so it's not safe to say that multiscreen works just fine.
Posted Feb 2, 2011 11:20 UTC (Wed)
by modernjazz (guest, #4185)
[Link]
I think the underlying problem, as usual, is X. Getting better, but still a ways to go.
Posted Feb 1, 2011 0:03 UTC (Tue)
by foom (subscriber, #14868)
[Link]
Most everyone has long ago switched to the last alternative, since it actually lets you move windows between monitors and fancy things like that. So I thought everyone on this thread was talking about that...
But who knows! I know one person who likes to use multiple-X-screens-on-one-X-server, because fvwm doesn't use XRandR hints to layout windows correctly or something like that, and he's always complaining about how someone has broken that functionality in the X server or driver for the 20th time in a row. And if there's anyone else running a setup like that, I'm sure they'd frequent this website. :)
Posted Jan 31, 2011 0:45 UTC (Mon)
by jackb (guest, #41909)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Jan 31, 2011 8:11 UTC (Mon)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 31, 2011 15:05 UTC (Mon)
by jackb (guest, #41909)
[Link] (1 responses)
On my primary machine most of my work is done on screen 2 due to the peculiarities of how the graphics card numbers the output ports. When I try to use the same profile on a machine that only has one screen the taskbar doesn't show up because it's configured to be on screen 2. The fact that screen 2 doesn't exist makes no difference to how KDE decides to layout the widgets.
I imagine the same thing would happen if you were working multiheaded and removed a monitor for some reason. If you didn't remember to move everything around beforehand you'd be out of luck.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 23:35 UTC (Mon)
by aseigo (guest, #18394)
[Link]
that should be fixed in 4.6 where such panels automigrate to an existing screen if there is no panel already there.
"The fact that screen 2 doesn't exist makes no difference to how KDE decides to layout the widgets."
primarily because there is no established "correct behavior": should all the desktop widgets be migrated to screen 0? well, that would likely mess up the widgets that are there.
the other gotcha is that plasma-desktop relies on the xserver to consistently number the screens in a sensible fashion. during screen changes such as the one you describe, it often doesn't. whichever way we chose to interpret those numbers, it'll be the "wrong" behaviour on some number of machines. :/
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-vi...
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released
KDE 4.6 released