Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
At 22:34 UTC (00:34am local time), Renesys observed the virtually simultaneous withdrawal of all routes to Egyptian networks in the Internet's global routing table. Approximately 3,500 individual BGP routes were withdrawn, leaving no valid paths by which the rest of the world could continue to exchange Internet traffic with Egypt's service providers. Virtually all of Egypt's Internet addresses are now unreachable, worldwide."
Posted Jan 28, 2011 16:43 UTC (Fri)
by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
[Link] (23 responses)
But at a large scale, a scale that encompasses recognized geopolitical boundaries even as small as political regions inside of a single country, information systems are still centralized enough for an information kill switch to be possible. And because its possible, governments will consider it a tool to be used. Its just a matter of particular government particularities that will determine when and where a particular government will reach for the tool. There's nothing sacrosanct about Western governments that would prevent the use of a kill switch under any situation.
The only way to stop this sort of blackout is to figure out a way to build a global network that is truly decentralized in terms of infrastructure. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Privately owned pico-satellites aren't a reality yet.
-jef
Posted Jan 28, 2011 16:56 UTC (Fri)
by proski (subscriber, #104)
[Link] (10 responses)
Posted Jan 28, 2011 17:14 UTC (Fri)
by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
[Link] (9 responses)
-jef
Posted Jan 28, 2011 17:30 UTC (Fri)
by ajb (subscriber, #9694)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Jan 28, 2011 18:10 UTC (Fri)
by AlexHudson (guest, #41828)
[Link] (7 responses)
The only realistic way to have a system which would be out of Government control would be some mesh-based wireless network which had a decentralised naming system. In a country like Egypt there are obvious geographical problems with an idea like that, and even in a best case you'd need a substantial amount of coverage for it to be practical.
I think it basically has to be acknowledged that there is essentially no technical solution that can fend off such an attack: fundamentally, Governments that are unable to exercise control over such key infrastructure are not really in power in the first place.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 19:56 UTC (Fri)
by martinfick (subscriber, #4455)
[Link] (3 responses)
It's almost as if the current history and the status quo prevents us from thinking that things could be different.
An alternate course to a monopolistic phone company based phone network (and thus internet) system could well have evolved (and still could, if people cared) by the cooperative efforts of individuals, communities and corporations. People can/could have run wires to their immediate neighbors' houses if they felt like it (and the laws didn't prevent it, which they likely do in most jurisdictions). Communities can/could have funded and owned the wires to other communities. Corporations can/could fund (and charge for) some infrastructure for long hauls and could help local efforts when requested to do so. Such a system of distributed responsibility would be much harder to control and censor then one built in the first place, and still owned in most cases, by government monopoly.
All it takes is: ...the desire, the belief that it is important, and the removal/circumvention of any legislative barriers to it.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 20:14 UTC (Fri)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link]
Posted Jan 29, 2011 11:38 UTC (Sat)
by AlexHudson (guest, #41828)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 31, 2011 11:21 UTC (Mon)
by albertoafn (guest, #64225)
[Link]
Posted Jan 28, 2011 23:03 UTC (Fri)
by salimma (subscriber, #34460)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 29, 2011 11:41 UTC (Sat)
by AlexHudson (guest, #41828)
[Link] (1 responses)
If a wireless mesh was effectively mostly linear along a river, then you only need to jam it in a couple of points to cause serious global issues for the entire network.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 18:36 UTC (Mon)
by daniel (guest, #3181)
[Link]
Use wire at those points.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 17:42 UTC (Fri)
by nof (guest, #61716)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Jan 28, 2011 20:15 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (3 responses)
Unless you feel like raiding the centers and forcing the power back on.
Even wireless can blocked. When it comes to the internet your still dependent on the physical world and the people with the guns set the rules.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 22:55 UTC (Fri)
by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
[Link] (2 responses)
-jef
Posted Jan 28, 2011 23:23 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link]
Of course governments have had no problem just making pretexts out of thin air in order to squash political dissent. The majority of governments carry out acts of violence against their own citizens as just a matter of course and then dream up justifications well after the fact.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 13:36 UTC (Mon)
by morganr (guest, #43385)
[Link]
You are proposing to side-step the question of taking over tv stations/ISPs/telephone exchanges by building a second communications network alongside the existing one. This won't work for two reasons 1) people who are revolting because £50 a month wage minus £30 rent can't buy food will not have the necessary equipment, 2) The Egyptian government can use some of the $1.3bn military aid from the US to buy 2.4GHz radio detector vans to drive around and arrest regime opponents with their own network.
Classically in Barcelona and St. Petersburg the revolutionaries were able to take control of the telephone/telegraph exchange and prevent the state from organising itself effectively. The same logic applies today, just that the IP infrastructure that is also important in organising a revolution or its counter-revolution.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 18:21 UTC (Fri)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (3 responses)
During the last days of the USSR the most reliable news were transmitted by FIDONet, running over the phone lines, radio links and a variety of other media types. There was even an illicit underwater cable running to Finland.
During the 93's White House shooting in Russia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_... ), the famous Kremvax was used to send news about the tanks in Moscow into the foreign newsgroups.
However, it all requires a strong technophilic community which just is not there right now.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 19:07 UTC (Fri)
by gmaxwell (guest, #30048)
[Link]
Of course some rare individuals rally enjoy tinkering with this stuff, but isolated people don't make an interesting network. A network of one is not that valuable. It's not just technophilic which is required, but people who are so extremely technophilic that they'll spend time and money building "unnecessary" rube-goldberg networks.
Unless we can find some real value for these kinds of networks outside of rare censorship events they simply won't be built.
Posted Jan 29, 2011 21:43 UTC (Sat)
by job (guest, #670)
[Link]
I too was involved in FidoNet but almost all ran over modem lines which would have been even easier to shut down than the Internet of today. Also, it was a store-and-forward network whichs is unfair to compare to a packet-switching network.
Posted Jan 30, 2011 1:12 UTC (Sun)
by edison (guest, #54104)
[Link]
Posted Jan 30, 2011 16:57 UTC (Sun)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 30, 2011 18:49 UTC (Sun)
by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
[Link] (1 responses)
-jef
Posted Jan 30, 2011 22:57 UTC (Sun)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
Posted Jan 28, 2011 17:21 UTC (Fri)
by freemars (subscriber, #4235)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 28, 2011 18:15 UTC (Fri)
by ewan (guest, #5533)
[Link]
There was a time when US politicians didn't look on those as examples to aspire to.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 19:35 UTC (Fri)
by MattPerry (guest, #46341)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 28, 2011 22:58 UTC (Fri)
by AndreE (guest, #60148)
[Link]
Posted Jan 28, 2011 23:14 UTC (Fri)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
Posted Jan 28, 2011 19:40 UTC (Fri)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
[Link] (4 responses)
Either the government will fall or massive repression will be required to save it.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 20:21 UTC (Fri)
by ortalo (guest, #4654)
[Link] (3 responses)
Nevertheless, for the future and for our children, it may be nice to design a digital network able to withstand both a nuclear attack *and* a governemental switch off request.
Posted Jan 29, 2011 13:44 UTC (Sat)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (2 responses)
This also helps to illustrate the real reason why anybody with skills and understanding of radio technology must be licensed before they are allowed to use any of it.
Posted Jan 29, 2011 16:53 UTC (Sat)
by ortalo (guest, #4654)
[Link] (1 responses)
Do you see what I mean?
Posted Jan 30, 2011 16:07 UTC (Sun)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link]
Absolutely though. We need to be always on the cutting edge of technology and do whatever is possible to have free and clear communication independent of our governments.
This happenned in Iran too. News tried to downplay the issue at first. Cries to the American government to help ensure democracy fell on deaf ears because it was not politically expedient for Obama to address Iran at the time. But the rest of the world still heard about it despite government best effort to supress and control information.
When I listen to the BBC and CNN all I see is government officials or friends of states wondering outloud how other middle eastern countries are going to be able to surpress their own issues for the sake of stability. I just listenned to a half of a hour of Senator Clinton and a talking head hinting at how the protests could lead to the reestablishment of a militant Muslim government and other radio folks were discussing how this threatens the Palistinian peace process because the Eqyption government served as a important advocate. Stuff like how the prisoners 'broke out' if prison.
What we know, if we pay attention, is that the government released the prisoners to insite violence and use videos of that to try to paint the protesters as inherently violent, anarchistic, and wild law breakers. We know that it's really people grouping together to put pressure on a politically and economically repressive dictator that should of stepped down decades ago.
We also know that a free and open society is the best way to ensure peace in the region.
I am very happy that I no longer have to depend on the media to gather news. Quite frequently they get quite a bit wrong, extremely slow to get information to the public and they frequently have their own political agendas.
Another thing to remember is that this man is a friend of the USA government. I just hope that he does not snap and decide to let the military loose. Getting information out realtime can help prevent this... because otherwise they are not going to get any support from any other government in the region or abroad.
Posted Jan 28, 2011 19:44 UTC (Fri)
by Alterego (guest, #55989)
[Link]
It is nice to see things going on.
Worth to notice : tor direct connection from egypt
http://media.torproject.org/image/direct-users-2011-01-28...
Posted Jan 28, 2011 20:45 UTC (Fri)
by nicooo (guest, #69134)
[Link]
Posted Jan 28, 2011 21:18 UTC (Fri)
by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624)
[Link] (1 responses)
Andre Toonk's bgpmon post shows about 88% of it was down yesterday (327 of 2903 networks left) and about 91% down today (239 of 2903):
Interestingly there's one ISP (Noor Data Networks) who seems almost completely unaffected - they've lost just 2 of their 85 routes into the country.
He also notes that Vodafone has confirmed that the government has required them to shut down their service in some areas.
Posted Jan 31, 2011 7:10 UTC (Mon)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link]
I have read somewhere else that Noor is a smaller ISP used by big companies and the stock market.
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
I think Diaspora could help. Sadly for the people of Egypt, it didn't take off for real yet.
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
its been done in spainits been done in spain
Its far from ideal but I suggest you to do the same thing in your country
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
In a country like Egypt there are obvious geographical problems with an idea like that
Not necessarily; most Egyptians live in the Nile Delta; the rest of the country is mostly empty desert.
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
I would think that most persons with IT knowledge automatically put their mind on the case.
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
State control over means of communication (state tv, ISP infrastructure) will prevent these calls from reaching the population quickly and helps stop the movement.
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
If the government falls will it still validate a 'kill switch'?
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Is it a net neutrality issue?
I think you really need to read better international news sources.
They've cut the international phone lines, they've lost control of the streets (vast crowds of demonstrators are defying the curfew), and the ruling party's headquarters is now on fire. The Internet cutoff is the least of it, and those of you talking about technological ways around the Internet block are missing the point. The best reporting is coming from al Jazeera, which has reporters on the ground all over the country with satellite phones.
Not just the Internet
Not just the Internet
Adress space shortage may not be the only reason to evolve.
Not just the Internet
Not just the Internet
blessent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone."
Not just the Internet
Workaround solutions
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)
Egypt Leaves the Internet (Renesys blog)