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The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

By Jonathan Corbet
January 18, 2011
The Cr-48 is, according to Google, the "first of its kind - a notebook built and optimized for the web." It is the next step in the promotion of Chrome OS, Google's other Linux-based distribution. As a way of showing off what it has accomplished and building interest in the system, Google has distributed Cr-48 machines widely. Your editor was a lucky, if late, recipient of one of these devices; what follows are his [Cr-48] impressions after some time playing with it. The Cr-48 and Chrome OS are an interesting vision of where computing should go, even if that vision is not for everybody.

The hardware itself is quite nice at a first glance. This machine is not a netbook; it is a small notebook device which clearly has taken some inspiration from Apple's hardware. Except, of course, that Apple's machines are not jet black, with no logos or markings of any type. It exudes a sort of Clarke-ian "2001 monolith" feel. There's an Intel Atom dual-core processor, 2GB of memory, and a 16GB solid-state drive. The silence of the device is quite pleasing; also pleasing is the built-in 3G modem with 100MB/month of free traffic by way of Verizon (which, unsurprisingly, is more than prepared to sell you more bandwidth once that runs out). Other connectivity includes WiFi and Bluetooth (though there appears to be no way to use the latter); there is no wired Ethernet port. There's a single USB port, an audio port, a monitor port, and what appears to be an SD card reader. Battery life is said to be about eight hours. Despite the small disk, it's a slick piece of hardware.

Using Chrome OS

The operating system and the hardware work nicely together. A cold boot takes a little over ten seconds; suspend and resume are almost instantaneous. In normal use, one simply lifts the lid and the system is ready to go; by default, the system does not even request a password at resume time if somebody is logged in - a setting that security-conscious users may want to change. There is a large trackpad with some simple multitouch capability. Interestingly, there is no "caps lock" key; Google, in its wisdom, replaced it with a "search" key. Happily, Google was also wise enough to allow the key to be remapped by the user; it can be restored to caps lock or, instead, as $DEITY intended, set to be a control key. Where one would expect to find the function keys are more web-centric buttons: Google has dedicated keys to operations like "back," "forward," and "reload." Of course, they're really just function keys underneath as far as the X server is concerned.

The system software is Linux-based, of course, but there's no way for a casual user to notice that. The core idea behind Chrome OS is that anything of interest can be had by way of a web browser, so that's all you get. Like an Android phone, the system starts by asking for the user's [Chrome home screen] Google account; everything after that is tied to that account. Email is to be done via GMail (there appears to be no way to read mail directly from an IMAP server), document editing with Google Docs, conferencing with Google Talk, and so on. Like an Android phone, a Chrome OS device is meant to be a portable front-end to Google-based services.

That is why the Cr-48 comes with such a small SSD; very little is stored there beyond the operating system image itself, and that image is small. Most of the space, in fact, is set aside for a local cache, but it's entirely disposable; everything of interest lives in the Google "cloud." So if, as the startup tutorial says, the device succumbs to an "unexpected steamroller attack", nothing is lost except the hardware. The user can sign onto a new device and everything will be there.

The appeal of this arrangement is clear: no backups, no lost data, no hassles upgrading to a new machine. Just browse the web and let Google worry about all the details. Of course, there are some costs; the Cr-48 can do almost nothing which cannot be done via the web. There is no way to get a shell (though see below) and no way to install Linux applications. Even updates are out of the user's hands: they happen when the Chrome OS Gods determine that the time is right.

There is a "web store" where browser-based applications can be had. At this time there is a surprising variety of them, almost all of which are free of charge. The application selection still falls far short of what is available with a standard Linux distribution or on Android, though. It's also not at all clear how many (if any) of these applications are actually free software. The "no local installations" philosophy means that Chrome browser plugins (which hook into the browser at a lower level than "applications" do) cannot be installed; that, in turn, means that any application which requires a plugin, while usable on regular Linux or Windows, is not installable on Chrome OS. It turns out that quite a few web store applications need plugins; annoyingly, the only way to find out if any given application can be installed is to try.

Your editor wanted to take a screenshot or two of the system in operation. The store offers a few screenshot applications, one provided by Google itself. The Google tool, though, needs a plugin and thus refused to install. An alternative application did install, but the "save" button, needing a plugin, was not able to save the result anywhere. The application could, though, "share" the screenshot through any of a number of web services - though the image itself (to your editor's surprise) is stored on the web site of the company providing the screenshot application. Something as simple as taking a screenshot should not be so hard - and it should not broadcast screenshots to the world by default.

Under the hood

The Cr-48 is a locked-down system. Its firmware will only load Google-signed images, so it's not possible for the user to make any changes. The root filesystem is mounted read-only. The whole verified boot mechanism is designed to ensure that the device's software has not been compromised and that the user can trust it. That said, the design goals are also expressed this way:

It is important to note that restraining the boot path to only Chromium-project-supplied code is not a goal. The focus is to ensure that when code is run that is not provided for or maintained by upstream, that the user will have the option to immediately reset the device to a known-good state. Along these lines, there is no dependence on remote attestation or other external authorization. Users will always own their computers.

The way this works on the Cr-48 is through a "developer switch," which is cleverly hidden behind a piece of tape inside the battery compartment. The instructions describe a lengthy series of events that will happen when that switch is flipped, including a special warning screen and a five-minute delay while the system cleans up any personal data which may be cached locally. What actually happened was a warning that the system is corrupted; hitting control-D at that screen did manage to boot the system into the developer mode, though.

Developer mode looks much like the regular operating mode with one exception: the other virtual consoles are now enabled, allowing the user to get to a shell and explore the system a bit. The system, it turns out, is based on a 2.6.32.23 kernel; it's said to be based on Ubuntu Gentoo, but any such parentage is hard to find. It uses the trusted platform module for integrity measurement, but it does not appear to be using the IMA or EVM modules shipped with the mainline kernel. The devtmpfs filesystem is used to populate /dev.

The system uses the ext3 filesystem for local data storage. There are two sets of root filesystem partitions; one is in use while updates are loaded into the other. It also uses eCryptfs to store user-specific data; in theory that means that such data is safe from prying eyes when the user is not actually logged into the system.

Given access to developer mode, one can go as far as installing an entirely new operating system on the device. The instructions for doing so are intimidating at best, though; Google has not gone out of its way to make displacing Chrome OS easy. Your editor will probably give it a try at some point, but the job did not look like something which could be done within any sort of deadline. It sure would have been nice if the system could just boot from an external device.

What it's good for

The appeal of a system like this is easy enough to understand. Here is a computer which can access all kinds of web-based services, never needs to be backed up, is highly malware-resistant, and which can be easily replaced. It could be handed to one's children with minimal fear of the consequences, and it is easily operated by people who are intimidated by any sort of system management task. A Chrome OS device is the contemporary equivalent of an X terminal; it is little more than a window into services which are managed elsewhere.

Your editor, who is not afraid to break manage his systems, and who prefers more control over his data, does not find this approach to computing to be hugely attractive. It is not useful for software development at all, and the things it can do are contingent on having network access. Google Docs might be able to handle a presentation, but the idea of depending on a conference network to be able to give a talk is frightening. There are those of us who will always want our systems to be more self-contained and locally controlled.

That said, such machines are not without their applications. Thousands of people, it seems, have had their laptops searched at the US border; your editor, who crosses that border frequently, has not, yet, had that experience. Should it ever come to pass, it might be nice to have a laptop which contains no local data at all. A throwaway Google account could be used for plausible deniability, and, in the unlikely case of a border agent who knows about the developer switch, any user-specific data on the system (which is encrypted anyway) should be gone by the time it becomes accessible. "Data in the cloud" systems have security concerns of their own (it would be nice if a Chrome OS system could be backed up by providers other than Google, for example), but there are times when having all of one's data be elsewhere can be comforting.

The locked-down nature of Chrome OS is thus not without its value, but locked-down is only good as long as the owner wants things that way. The Chrome OS documentation suggests that Google wants all devices to include a developer switch. In the real world, it would be unsurprising if some vendors somehow never quite got around to adding that switch. Without full access, one of these laptops becomes something more like a television: useful for displaying content, but something short of a real computer.

Chrome OS is clearly not meant to be a "real computer" of the sort that LWN readers are likely to want. The target user base is different, to say the least. As such, it is an interesting exercise in what can be done to package Linux for other classes of users. At the beginning of the year, your editor predicted that Chrome OS would struggle; who wants such a limited system when a real computer can be so easily had? Based on this experience, your editor is not quite ready to change his mind, but he is willing to admit that Chrome OS may be the experience some people are looking for.


to post comments

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 1:40 UTC (Tue) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link] (33 responses)

No worthwhile 3D hardware, no real games, hence not appealing to anything more than a handful 50 year washed up professionals.

Let me know when they realize that even the damn iPhone only sells as well as it does because it's a moderately capable gaming machine.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 2:00 UTC (Tue) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link] (1 responses)

My understanding is that this particular *hardware* is incidental. Google simply wants people to evaluate the *software* platform.

However your concerns do apply generally. ChromeOS has many challenges to overcome before I'd consider it a success.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 10:27 UTC (Tue) by jmalcolm (subscriber, #8876) [Link]

I think that you hit the nail on the head. Although this did read somewhat as a hardware review, the point is very clearly ChromeOS. I do not believe we have yet seen any of the hardware that real people are expected to buy.

Even some of the later comments here seem to miss that fact.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 7:15 UTC (Tue) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link] (25 responses)

No worthwhile 3D hardware, no real games, hence not appealing to anything more than a handful 50 year washed up professionals.

That's quite the narrow minded perspective there. No one other than fifty year old "washed up" professionals find a system without robust 3D gaming hardware appealing for any reason?

I used to write video games for a living, and I think most 3D games stink. But if people want to spend large amounts of money on portable game playing toys, more power to them. The rest of the world tends to value portable devices more for their utility than for their value as idle distractions.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 8:18 UTC (Tue) by PO8 (guest, #41661) [Link] (24 responses)

All sarcasm aside, I'm genuinely curious—who's the demographic for this? One of the first rules of business is to identify a customer base before designing a product. Someone give me some details of the age, socioeconomic status, vocations and avocations of folks who would think a ChromeOS device is pretty neat.

Perhaps the less-active elderly? Many of them are supposedly looking for an entirely turnkey solution with zero administration and zero risk of malware. Needing to be net-connected isn't likely to bother them, and their needs are mostly limited to communications and personal data processing, which this platform should handle fine. There's a lot of them, and in the US at least they tend to be reasonably affluent but not extravagant spenders.

Now to get rich designing elder-centric webapps for ChromeOS, LOL.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 8:52 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (8 responses)

businesses, kids.

folks who need the computers to do work, not for high-end games.

People who want to want to use their machines, not fight with anti-virus anti-spyware, etc

even power users who want something light with a long battery life that they can carry around and use to connect to their other systems

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 13:50 UTC (Tue) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link] (6 responses)

With all the objections to Linux-in-the-workplace due to an insufficient amount of suitable apps, is there really any chance of ChromeOS-in-the-workplace given that it is even more limited in that regard?

It seems like you probably can't get much work done on one of these and, even if you could, few businesses would buy them for employees when they could buy an infinitely more flexible netbook for a similar price.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 15:41 UTC (Tue) by jzbiciak (guest, #5246) [Link] (3 responses)

I guess it depends. If the ChromeOS apps are being hosted by the company on a company server, then I could see this becoming a corporate thin-client solution.

Imagine a sales floor or a call center or what-have-you. Any computer will do for what you need a computer for. Sit down at any station (or in the case of a sales floor, pick up a sales tablet) and do what you need to do, and get on with life. Any computer is as good as another, so you don't have to worry about picking up <I>your</I> computer.

UPS and FedEx already have a limited-scope version of such gadgets for tracking packages. It's not an unreasonable model when the computer is not the end itself, but rather a means to an end.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 2:27 UTC (Wed) by xilun (guest, #50638) [Link] (2 responses)

Fully featured corporate thin-client solutions already exists anyway. Retargeting a ChromeOS laptop for that purpose would probably not be the best move. Could have been more interesting if the secure boot stuff could be changed to accept an other root authority than Google, but this is not possible by the design they chose (there are public keys in a true ROM). So despite the "secure for users" / "open for developers" speech, developers in question are still second zone citizens, the only first zone one being Google, and so by design. That's where the openness stops. It is still far better than completely locked devices, but the vision is anyway very similar to the one of apple with their istuffs and of random video game console maker, unsurprisingly.

Neither corporations nor the paranoid geeks that want to build/administrate/maintain and have total mastery of their systems including of course security and privacy are the target of ChomeOs. It's far more suitable for the general public (at least the part that don't really care about privacy and have very little needs beyond web-surfing, and will happily stays in the limited roles the big corporations are willing to put them it, with clear borders).

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 2:33 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

remember that this is a test, proof of concept box.

I'm sure that if you called and wanted to order several thousands of them you could arrange to get the key in the rom changes to something else.

it may even be that the rom is socketed so that you can change it out.

this is assuming that it really is rom, not just flash that requires opening the machine to reprogram. I haven't seen a real hardware tear-apart to know the details of this.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 7:36 UTC (Wed) by Cato (guest, #7643) [Link]

Actually making this a Citrix or similar client would be a good move - I was reading only the other day about the problem of Windows PCs that are only used as Citrix clients which get infected with viruses that could grab corporate passwords.

I think having a really low cost locked-down Citrix client that can also run web apps directly would be quite attractive to corporates, particularly if it can also be configured to only connect via corporate VPN (which avoids the insecurity of open public WiFi).

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 1:25 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

there are LOTS of businesses, and even within a business there are a lot of different requirements.

your power users who need special software aren't the users for this, but your call-center users, shipping/receiving/warehouse people just need a machine that can access the web-based apps that they are using.

adding an extra platform to support does add management costs, but if the reduction in admin effort and cost is enough, it will win out.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 9:50 UTC (Wed) by frazier (guest, #3060) [Link]

> With all the objections to Linux-in-the-workplace due to an insufficient amount of suitable apps, is there really any chance of ChromeOS-in-the-workplace given that it is even more limited in that regard?

-----------
(from the time + proximity perspective of some decision makers)

Absolutely. This is Google-in-the-workplace. Everyone is already using Google in some form or another. This is just more Google. No big deal.

Linux is a big deal. Who's running Linux? I think we might have some Linux servers in IT, but our Microsoft Partner set up the high visibility web stuff on ASP.NET. All is good.
-----------

I'll divide out how I think most people make decisions (from toothpaste to God):
1. Time (amount of time consumed with something)
2. Proximity (how close they are to something. Worth noting, 1 and 2 can swap depending on the person and/or situation)
3. Accuracy

#3 trails hard with many. Linux doesn't have #1 or #2 with many because their Linux time (server) is largely transparent, and for them it's something inside their browser (the web site, not the web platform used). Google though, they've been searching with them for years. They may already have an Android phone that stays with them. For them, it's not a Linux phone, it's a Google Android-based phone. They spend time with it, and it's close by.

I think a big threat for Chrome OS is actually Android. Some cheap netbooks with touchscreens would cater nicely to points #1 and #2. Not saying it'll happen in numbers, but it certainly is possible.

...and yes, I know Chrome OS is Linux-based. That's #3 talk.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 25, 2011 7:42 UTC (Tue) by ceplm (subscriber, #41334) [Link]

... and all those people who are very happy with their iPads, but they hate Apple and they would prefer real keyboard.

Matej

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 10:22 UTC (Tue) by jmalcolm (subscriber, #8876) [Link] (9 responses)

I am not sure if ChromeOS will be a success but the potential target audience seems large to me. Based on the number of friends and relatives that rely on me for tech support, my impression is that most computer users just want their computers to work and really do not want to mess with things like administration and tweaking.

There is another article here on LWN about XFCE. In one of the comments, a poster talks about a relative that just used the icons on his desktop after a glitch caused the "applications" menu to disappear. He managed this way for weeks until the poster was able to stop by and fix it.

A lot of mainstream users consider gaming to be a core use for their devices so that is a legitimate issue to raise. That said, I think we do not understand how many people just want to use their computers for email, web browsing, and very simple document creation.

It is a bit humorous to me that us tech folks imagine that we are somehow the mainstream. Most people do not care about shell access. Most people are not developers. Most people are not computer enthusiasts. Most people, even many of the control freaks, just do not care about their computers enough to want to spend large amounts of time configuring and managing them.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 18:35 UTC (Tue) by martinfick (subscriber, #4455) [Link]

But, wouldn't those people be happier with an android Honeycomb based device? What is the appeal to ChromeOS over Android?

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 19:43 UTC (Tue) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link] (3 responses)

> A lot of mainstream users consider gaming to be a core use for their
> devices so that is a legitimate issue to raise.

Casual gamers on ChromeOS can play HTML5 or (ew) Adobe Flash games. Serious gamers will buy a serious game machine like the XBox or PS3.

There are definitely problems with ChromeOS (biggest one: why isn't it Android?), but games aren't one.

C.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 7:33 UTC (Wed) by Cato (guest, #7643) [Link] (1 responses)

Generally I agree about gaming - the proportion of Windows PC gamers is actually rather small compared to the massed ranks of those gaming on Xbox, PS3, portable devices (Nintendo DS etc) or smartphones/tablets.

However I do think in the longer term there will be a hybrid Chrome/Android, whereby most of your apps are in the cloud but you can run apps locally as well if required (possibly through offline-cloud features), for those times when there's no internet connection.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 27, 2011 6:55 UTC (Thu) by WolfWings (subscriber, #56790) [Link]

I honestly disagree. Despite the larger 'media blasting' of games like Halo or Gears of War, there's millions upon millions of PC gamers versus console gamers. Let's take it by the numbers: 50 million XBox 360s, 42 million PS3s, and about 76 million Wiis. Call it about 150 million overall active console gamers worldwide to account for older systems and overlap between platform ownership?

World of Warcraft and many other MMO's. WoW by itself accounts for 12 (yes, TWELVE) million active monthly accounts in late 2010: http://blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.htm...

StarCraft 1 or 2. Look at the Asian competitive gaming market, it's huge for these and other RTS/pseudo-RTS games like mobile-artillery-fire sorts as well. Those are around 15-20 million active gamers depending on which news report you look at in the last year, some even higher. I'll go with 15.

CounterStrike and Team Fortress 2. I'm unable to find accurate stats for these, so I'll count them at 0, but mentioned here.

Hell, even Minecraft. 1-mil copies sold right there, at least 500k of those actively playing every day from when the stats page worked a couple weeks ago; they're mid-migration to a fully cloud-based web interface, so the stats-tracking code isn't operational at the moment).

Just from that handful of PC games, in a single day, there's roughly a sixth of the entire sold working worldwide console game population accounted for. One out of six, without delving deeply into stats, just nailing the highlights.

And that's not even touching on things like PopCap games that sell well, or all the various niche markets below the size or visibility of Minecraft. Or how many owners of consoles are actually active on gaming on a daily basis.

So, no, Windows PC gamers are not a minority compared to Console gamers at all. And that doesn't even touch on the number of companies supporting Intel Mac gaming now since Steam started the charge. Or even cross-platform and well-liked games that have millions of downloads for their niche market like rRootage for SCHMUP players, or the millions and millions of daily gamers visiting sites like ArmorGames or Kongregate. Or hell... the grandparents playing Solitaire on their Windows PC instead of shuffling a physical deck of cards because their arthritis has gotten too bad. That's still PC gaming too instead of playing it on a console.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 19:13 UTC (Sat) by oak (guest, #2786) [Link]

> There are definitely problems with ChromeOS (biggest one: why isn't it Android?), but games aren't one.

Android cannot have ChromeOS, but why CromeOS couldn't have Android and anything that implies, starting from AppStore? Only thing needed is a Dalvik JavaVM and some desktop integration so that Android apps blend nicely to desktop and users can easily access stuff they've bought, right?

As ChromeOS verifies whole OS on bootup and doesn't allow users local shell or root access, pirating the commercial games should be harder than say on Windows. And if Java GLES games run fine on Android phones like is stated here:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/06/game-devel...

They should fly on a net/notebook. According to above article, many of the Android games (including popular ones) are just Java, rest may have e.g. native libraries wrapped for Java.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 18:49 UTC (Sat) by oak (guest, #2786) [Link] (3 responses)

Decade ago my dance instructor asked me whether I could help him with his computer (no idea how he identified me from the group as somebody who works with computers). It turned out his mails had been bouncing as they had viruses and he had bought a virus scanner which he wanted me to install. Unfortunate he had bought it for wrong Windows version, it worked only with newer ones. I think his eventual solution to the problem was to buy a new computer, this time with virus scanner pre-installed...

I'd say that most people don't want to install any software on their machines (games or other things), mostly because they cannot be sure it will succeed. If they don't have friends or relatives who do the computer administration for them, either the software (like MS-office) is pre-installed when they buy the computer or they take the machine to a shop for install. However, I have hard time imagining somebody doing that to get some new game to their machine.

Nowadays people just open e.g. their Facebook account and play (Flash) games that are there or do some casual gaming on gaming www-sites (which also use Flash). If they want 3D games, they buy a game console, but it's mostly kids and lonelier singles who have time for that kind of stuff. People with families are too busy for anything but casual gaming.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 19:17 UTC (Sat) by PO8 (guest, #41661) [Link] (2 responses)

Most everybody *has* Microsoft Office, no matter how it got there. So they can take their computer places that they don't have network access, and still use it for stuff. While some folks will be fine with that, I fear that most people will be unhappy with a portable computer that works properly only when they have an Internet connection for it.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 19:22 UTC (Sat) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

there are a lot of people with 'notebook' computers that only use them in places where there is electicity, and nowdays, just about all of those places have Internet access as well.

we will see how this works out.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 19:36 UTC (Sat) by oak (guest, #2786) [Link]

I've never used Google Docs, but AFAIK it has supported offline usage for about two years (with Google Gears), so why not having Internet for a while would be a problem?

Doesn't it also have (basic?) support for importing & exporting MS-Office document formats? At least .doc etc are listed on Google Docs pages as supported.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 13:29 UTC (Tue) by k3ninho (subscriber, #50375) [Link]

Age, socioeconomic status, vocations and avocations of potential users? There's large swathes of the planet who don't have access to the internet yet, and Google wants to sell their user data to advertisers when it eventually comes online. There's people like me who want a fire-and-forget computing experience, so that I can choose to tinker with computers and also choose to not care at other times. There's people whose computing experience is web browsing in place of TV browsing a decade ago, for whom the computer in hand doesn't really matter.

I kind-of expect Dell and Microsoft to respond to ChromeOS with a managed-service laptop on some lightweight edition of Windows (perhaps that's what the Windows-on-ARM announcements at CES were about). Outsourcing your duty to care for your equipment is going to become a commodity that you buy; I've spent the last decade with a mobile phone contract where I get next-day replacement of the phone if broken or lost and think that there are many people who would pay to have the same for their personal computing needs.

K3n.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 15:27 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (1 responses)

All sarcasm aside, I'm genuinely curious—who's the demographic for this?

While I would never use such a machine, I could see my kids using it. For example, my daughter's middle school encourages the kids to do their assignments using Google Docs. They have groups so teachers can pick up the kids' assignments directly from Google. It works pretty nicely.

Also, my kids spend 99% of their computer time in the browser, doing email, or doing instant-messaging. The Chrome machine would be perfect for that.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 22:07 UTC (Tue) by daniel (guest, #3181) [Link]

"Also, my kids spend 99% of their computer time in the browser, doing email, or doing instant-messaging. The Chrome machine would be perfect for that."

And if they ever find themselves without a net connection they can just go outside and play. Right, that's it.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 2:12 UTC (Wed) by dougsk (guest, #25954) [Link] (1 responses)

A decent ICA and or RDP client and Google may have just put all the thin client vendors out of business. Wait it can't print? Wyse thanks Mountain View profusely for all the money left on the table.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 15:17 UTC (Wed) by dtlin (subscriber, #36537) [Link]

It will be able to print, though it's not entirely ironed out yet. Google Chrome Cloud Print

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 21:45 UTC (Tue) by jmm82 (guest, #59425) [Link]

"No worthwhile 3D hardware, no real games, hence not appealing to anything more than a handful 50 year washed up professionals."

You mean pot smoking college kids?(yeah, I just generalized all "3d video gamers" into one stereotypical category, just like you did.)

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 23:34 UTC (Tue) by PaulWay (guest, #45600) [Link]

> ... even the damn iPhone only sells as well as it does because it's a moderately capable gaming machine

Hahahahaha - oh, dear, you *are* a hardcore gamer aren't you? That statement, my friend, is worth preserving as a sort of ISO standard of crapness.

The reason the iPhone sells so well is because it's slick, neat, and all the cool people have one. I know people who've bought it solely for those reasons alone. My brother owns one purely because he wanted to upgrade his phone, he's an Apple devotee, and he wanted a small, modestly powerful web browser at his fingertips.

I'm sure games make lots of money on iPhones - you can certainly see it on the Android platform. But they're hardly the reason for the iPhone's existence. Surely the 'Phone' in iPhone is a giveaway as to their true purpose? Surely Apple's previous line-up of iPods shows where they came from? Having games there is fun, no doubt, but you might as well assert that the purpose of the Linux Kernel is to play 3D games for all the relevance your statement has to the iPhone.

Have fun,

Paul

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 20, 2011 1:09 UTC (Thu) by dmag (guest, #17775) [Link]

> even the damn iPhone only sells as well as it does because it's a moderately capable gaming machine.

I agree that "entertainment" is used to _justify_ the iPhone quite often. But the iPhone was a hot seller for the first year of it's life -- when there were NO apps for it. So games aren't the biggest/only reason.

I, for one, welcome our new app overlords. NOT.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 20, 2011 9:10 UTC (Thu) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646) [Link] (1 responses)

While I *am* (almost) a "50 year washed up professional", most of my friends and acquaintaces aren't, ranging in age from kids to 70+. And, you probably won't be able to imagine, real 3D games is very low priority to most of them. Those who are hardcore gamers are mostly quite young and don't work yet full time, or are nerds with almost no social life besides their gaming communities. And, sadly(!), Apple products like iPhone are very popular, even if they are not bought for gaming.

See, I can make up empiric evidence as easy as you! You seem to be a hard-core gamer, or you think the IT world revolves around hard-core gamers. News flash: It ain't so, we 40+-ers aren't so fixated on gaming and we have more money to spend on IT devices than you.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 20, 2011 14:02 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link]

I think you are both wrong ;-)

It might very well be that what is decisive for someone isn't exactly their main use of the machine: This one here is used mainly for web (like now), email and editing LaTeX. But not having decent MS Office suport (even if used much less than 5% of the time) would have been a show stopper for me.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 1:57 UTC (Tue) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link] (17 responses)

Thank you for the detailed review.

"Data in the cloud" systems have security concerns of their own (it would be nice if a Chrome OS system could be backed up by providers other than Google, for example)

A Chrome OS system can be backed up by providers other than Google. The answer is to use services which treat data the same way the free software movement treats code.

That is exactly the vision of my company, CouchOne. CouchDB is a Free Software database and application server. Its native protocol is HTTP and its primary feature is peer-to-peer replication. CouchDB is the kitchen sync for the web—the filesystem of the Internet.

At the latest Ubuntu Developer Summit, my standard quip was this: CouchDB sucks at everything. Except sync. And incidentally, sync is the most important feature a developer cares about in the future.

I come from a heavy free software philosophy. When I interviewed at CouchOne, I was skeptical, thinking they simply hawk yet another another immature "big data" NoSQL server. But I realized they think about data freedom how I think about software freedom. Now I run our CouchDB hosting service.

That is why, unlike some free software leaders, I am excited about a more web-based, cloud-based software future—done correctly!

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 2:12 UTC (Tue) by akumria (guest, #7773) [Link] (7 responses)

Thank you for the advertisement of your product.

One of your product claims, namely:

A Chrome OS system can be backed up by providers other than Google. The answer is to use services which treat data the same way the free software movement treats code.

Could you provide additional material to support this claim, preferably some kind of working implementation I can install on a Chrome OS system (be it virtual machine or hardware).

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 2:56 UTC (Tue) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link] (6 responses)

You're welcome! I tried to identify the free-software-like philosophy without sounding like a shill. (For example, I removed all external links.)

Data freedom is becoming a foremost concern of the free software movement leadership. I hope to promote emerging projects which are congruent with the GNU philosophy but concerning data freedom, even if I risk looking petty.

To answer your question, the Couch App ecosystem is comparatively tiny, with no flagship, general-purpose products. CouchApp development can be tedious and slow, attractive mostly to early-adopter developers, like GNU was. The exciting thing is the philosophy behind the software, like GNU was.

For example, the Kabul War Diary is a CouchApp based on the Afghanistan WikiLeaks data. It is a web application like any other: AJAX, data-driven, Google Maps UI, etc. However, you can replicate (anonymously, over HTTP) the entire free data set to your own server. One of the records in this database is the web app itself, which is free software and runs on CouchDB. Now you have a private copy—free software and free data.

I hope my enthusiasm persuades you that I am not advertising; I just happen to work in a company with a worthwhile core philosophy.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 12:42 UTC (Tue) by marduk (subscriber, #3831) [Link] (3 responses)

But you did'nt provide an example of how now one could back up their personal data hosted elsewhere (unless you consider Wikileaks data as "personal data" ;-)

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 19:36 UTC (Tue) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link] (2 responses)

With CouchDB, a database is at a URL, such as https://my.personal.oauth-protected.domain.com/photos. You can trigger push replication to any other URL, or pull replication from any URL (assuming you are authorized to do so). You can also specify a filter policy to replicate only a subset of the data as needed.

Therefore a web app which respects your freedom allows/encourages you to replicate your data to your own systems, in the same way a developer who respects your freedom allows/encourages you to take the source code and use it as you see fit. For example, you might pull all your data from https://awesome-app.com/your_username and keep it on your laptop's encrypted partition.

Where to replicate to/from, and what the filter policy does is application-specific. The replication plumbing is complete and useful; however, I concede that general-purpose applications are only now being undertaken. The point is, it's encouraging that there is free software which enables "free data" in the cloud-based future of applications.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 1:20 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (1 responses)

A Chrome OS system can be backed up by providers other than Google. The answer is to use services which treat data the same way the free software movement treats code.

What you're saying is that Chrome OS could hypothetically back up its data to providers other than Google if Chrome OS were based on applications that use CouchDB databases.

But the point from the article is about Chrome OS that is actually available. For mail, for example, it uses Gmail. CouchDB notwithstanding, the user's mail cannot be backed by someone other than Google.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 5:57 UTC (Sat) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

You are correct, I should have said "could hypothetically." Or as an optimist, I might say, "will, one day soon."

And it's not simply using CouchDB. The application must also permit users to replicate. For example, a Couch app might be allowed for browser access but replication is blocked by a firewall. The developer must both use CouchDB *and* respect your freedom. Still, I think that day is coming.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 15:19 UTC (Wed) by oever (guest, #987) [Link] (1 responses)

The term "Couch App" for an browser application that stores data on a Couch server is nice. Is there a JavaScript API that lets these applications also work offline from the browser storage, that is synced with the Couch server once that becomes reachable again?

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 15:52 UTC (Wed) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

There have been projects to add Couch semantics to browser storage however I do not think any are production-ready. Progress usually halts when it's time to implement the replication protocol. It's not rocket surgery, however as I will say in another comment, the only "documentation" is the Erlang reference implementation.

However, the situation you describe is pretty much the primary objective of much of the CouchDB leadership, so I'm optimistic that this will happen. In the meantime, people simply run CouchDB on the local device or even as a browser plugin. Ubuntu does that, and CouchDB can be embedded in Android and other mobile apps. Optimizing for size is only beginning however they think they can make CouchDB quite small and painless.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 7:27 UTC (Tue) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link] (1 responses)

The answer is to use services which treat data the same way the free software movement treats code.

I am not sure that is much of a tagline. A handful of important exceptions notwithstanding, most people prefer their data to be kept considerably more private than a typical open source code base.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 11:45 UTC (Tue) by AndreE (guest, #60148) [Link]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about personal access and user rights.

A cloud service that respects the rights (freedoms) of users and allows them unfettered control and access is the most ideal

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 4:23 UTC (Wed) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (6 responses)

Speaking of which, is there a nice technical write-up of CouchDB's synchronization algorithms anywhere? I've been thinking for years that the obvious way to do open web services is to use the tricks we discovered when inventing distributed VCS's to store our data. I keep meaning to design a mail storage format that supports efficient and well-behaved syncing as a proof of concept, but never have gotten around to it, so I'm curious what other people are doing...

In particular, the problem of merging many sorts of structured data (e.g., filesystem trees, contact books, mailboxes, etc.) in a provably correct way was pretty much solved[1], but since the solutions never got picked up by the mainstream DVCS's, I don't know if anyone actually *knows* about this, and I'm very curious how the algorithms that people are actually using in practice compare.

[1] See: http://www.monotone.ca/docs/Mark_002dMerge.html, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.monoto... for the core algorithm, and the extension to complex data structures is, uh, in my head and the monotone code base.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 6:02 UTC (Sat) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link] (5 responses)

Unfortunately, i do not think there is a writeup. There are two reference implementations, but I believe that is all.

You inspired me to write up at least all the aspects of it which I know. Please excuse the cross-post, but I thought the greater development community would benefit so I placed it on Stack Overflow.

The CouchDB replication protocol

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 22, 2011 18:57 UTC (Sat) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (4 responses)

Thanks for taking the effort to write it up!

...I'm really struck by the idea that it doesn't allow "merge" nodes in its history graph. That seems to make correct merging/replication quite hopeless in common cases? Say you have a data store A, containing revision A1, which you then replicate to create data store B. Then both are modified, so we have:
A contains: A1 -> A2
B contains: A1 -> B2

Now we do a pull from B to A, and "merge". IIUC this creates:
A contains: A1 -> A2 -> A3, A1 -> B2 (deleted)
where A3 contains the modifications made in B2, but this isn't recorded anywhere in the data model.

Then B gets modified some more:
B contains A1 -> B2 -> B3

And now we pull from B to A again. As far as A is concerned, B3 is the child of a deleted revision. What do we do with it? Throw it out? Resurrect the divergence, and eventually merge B3 and A3 "from scratch", ignoring their common history (B2)?

I suppose I should take this to some mailing list...

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 23, 2011 1:04 UTC (Sun) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

I am investigating the answer to this. Hopefully I can reply with a good answer.

At this time, it seems more likely that I have an error in my understanding rather than Couch has a glaring architectural misfeature that nobody noticed all these years.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 23, 2011 1:40 UTC (Sun) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link] (2 responses)

Okay I think I've got it. Two points:

1. Revision histories which are "deleted" are simply marked as such. They are not removed from the history graph.
2. Marking a revision "deleted" is itself a revision update. Maybe a way to think of it is a Git annotated tag.

Conceptually, a delete could look like this:

A1 -> B2 -> B2_Deleted

So yes, if you pull again and you see B3, no problem. Just put it on the revision tree. B3 and B2_Deleted are siblings with parent B2.

You do merge A3 and B3 "from scratch." This is the difference with Git. In Git, the history is the whole point. But with arbitrary records and application-specific merge semantics, it's not as meaningful that B3 and A3 have a comment parent. The application is still probably more interested in the difference between the *data* rather than the ancestral history. (Not to mention, CouchDB is difficult enough without HTML/Javascript programmers having to negotiate dependency trees in their code.)

For example, what if B3 stores "delete_account: true" which means in this application that the user wishes to completely remove his account and delete all of his data. Clearly that fact is dominant in the merge/conflict-resolution strategy and it hardly matters what the history graph looks like.

Finally, the history graph is always there for the client (replicator). There is nothing stopping an application-level `git-rerere` implementation--perhaps as a library which all developers could use.

(Note, I'm not saying explicit merge info isn't useful. For all I know it was overlooked in the original architecture. I'm just saying it's not a showstopper.)

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 23, 2011 2:24 UTC (Sun) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (1 responses)

> So yes, if you pull again and you see B3, no problem. Just put it on the revision tree. B3 and B2_Deleted are siblings with parent B2.

Sure, that makes sense.

> The application is still probably more interested in the difference between the *data* rather than the ancestral history. [...] For example, what if B3 stores "delete_account: true" which means in this application that the user wishes to completely remove his account and delete all of his data. Clearly that fact is dominant in the merge/conflict-resolution strategy and it hardly matters what the history graph looks like.

Hrm, so what I'm basically hearing is that CouchDB's data/synchronization model in practice is:
-- You have a bunch of records which must be independent (there's no way that synchronization can respect any kind of referential integrity)
-- When synchronizing, CouchDB will automatically identify the "latest" version of any given record (via "fast-forward merge"); if anything more complicated happens, then the app is on its own. And if the app *wanted* to use a proper merge algorithm to, say, notice that the user added a phone number to this contact on their phone and also added a user picture on their computer and those edits can easily be combined -- then it's sort of doomed, because the needed history information just isn't recorded; it's expected that apps will mostly do the equivalent of two-way merge, or that divergence will be rare enough that even a crippled three-way-merge will be good enough.

Does that sound right?

My wild guess is that in practice this architecture works fine for data that's inherently loosely coupled, and where edits are rare relative to the size of the data store and the synchronization frequency. This probably covers all the main data people are replicating these days -- bookmarks, contact lists, mail with their phone -- but I'm not sure how far you can stretch it. And it's possible to do *much* better, without adding much -- if any -- complexity.

Monotone, for instance, implements a distributed data store with complex structure (a tree of files/directories, each of which can have an arbitrary set of attributes), referential integrity constraints (can't have two files with the same names, no directory loops, etc.), and a very cheap, fully history-sensitive automated merger with a rigorous mathematical foundation ("mark merge").

> There is nothing stopping an application-level `git-rerere` implementation--perhaps as a library which all developers could use.

Sure, but git-rerere is a total hack whose purpose is to prevent Linus from seeing merge nodes. I don't imagine your end-users really have any aesthetic preferences about the shape of the graph buried inside CouchDB :-). Wouldn't it make even *more* sense for CouchDB to just store the relevant information out of the box?

Your point about not wanting to confuse developers is well-taken, but I feel like they'd be better off overall if they had better tools, instead of having to implement these things themselves.

So, hmm. Thanks for giving me something to think about!

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 23, 2011 2:45 UTC (Sun) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

I think your assessment is close enough so that further nitpicking of the minutia wouldn't be productive. Two final thoughts:
  1. If an improvement to the architecture is possible, the community would likely be very open to that. That would be a big change, requiring good justification, but the community is very open and flexible. I think the main problem right now is, tooling ("merge" libraries, development/debugging tools) is so much more primitive than the core database, that it's somewhat moot. The wiki's description of conflict resolution is a piece of pseudocode. In the future, it will say "If you use C, use this library; if you use Ruby, use this other." When that happens, the pain point of the history graph may become dominant.
  2. Tracking true "merges" is possible in "user space" if you will. Like a shadow government, the client can simply track its own history graph using its own mechanism. (In this case, it's just like Couch except merges are recorded as such.) The data is simply a normal key/val part of the record. If the algorithm proves to be superior, it could be baked into couch. (The advantage of Couch's revision tree is, like Unix dotfiles, it is not transmitted to the client unless explicitly requested. Otherwise it's a normal key/val datum called IIRC `revs_info`.)

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 2:16 UTC (Tue) by jmorris42 (guest, #2203) [Link] (9 responses)

The larger question Google is going to have to answer is "What advantage does Chrome offer over Android?" If you take a netbook/notebook and load android on it you can have everything Chrome offers by avoiding any application other than the web browser OR install local applications. So why will an OEM or customer chose Chrome?

For that matter you can load Ubuntu on the same machine and the same argument basically holds, if you are afraid of keeping local info, just launch the browser full screen and have done with it... while keeping the OPTION of local applications or content if you ever need it. The example of a convention center with dodgy wireless being a perfect one.

Yes in theory a Chrome OS only unit can save some by leaving out local storage but unless a lot of people want Chrome in the worst sort of way the iron laws of economics and monopoly will keep the basic Windows 7 notebook less expensive and more available at retail.

So any Google peeps want to enlighten us as to just what the sales pitch is intended to be?

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 3:37 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

If you use Chrome browser I suspect you get a get a idea of what it would be like to run Chrome OS if you goto "chrome://extensions/" and then follow the provided 'Get More extensions' link to the Chrome Web Store.

I was bit to surprised to find the Chrome Web app store by accident. I never seen it really advertised anywhere.

There are quite a few games and other things there, but games are mostly flash stuff.

use that for a while and maybe it will give you a idea on how they plan on promoting Chrome OS. I certainly don't.

One USB only !

Posted Jan 18, 2011 6:12 UTC (Tue) by Alterego (guest, #55989) [Link] (7 responses)

Only one USB seems broken desing to me.
Impossible to have a mouse and an usb-key simultaneaously.
This must be fixed if a large audience is aimed at.

One USB only !

Posted Jan 18, 2011 6:38 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

what's wrong with using a SD card? you can easily adapt that to a USB interface for other machines.

and on a portable device, having the flash fit internally rather than sticking out to be hit and catch on things seems like a very good idea to me

One USB only !

Posted Jan 18, 2011 7:13 UTC (Tue) by lordsutch (guest, #53) [Link]

Perhaps, but given the existence of cheap, small USB hubs not exactly an insurmountable problem. More to the point, the Cr-48 would seem to be a preliminary design for evaluating the software platform and not a consumer product.

One USB only !

Posted Jan 18, 2011 7:14 UTC (Tue) by dambacher (subscriber, #1710) [Link] (4 responses)

With the philosophy this device is build upon, local storage is not needed, high battery life and low price is wanted, so one usb is ok.

One USB only !

Posted Jan 18, 2011 22:13 UTC (Tue) by daniel (guest, #3181) [Link] (3 responses)

"With the philosophy this device is build upon, local storage is not needed, high battery life and low price is wanted, so one usb is ok."

And of course nobody would ever want to print anything or upload photos from their camera to this device while using the mouse at the same time.

One USB only !

Posted Jan 19, 2011 16:53 UTC (Wed) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] (2 responses)

Exactly. Where "nobody" means "vanishingly small so there's no need to worry about it."

And even that tiny sliver of people will upgrade their dinosaurs to connect via wifi and bluetooth. A few months ago I bought a hl-2270dw and love it. No need to set up printer sharing and always-on computers.

Don't worry, you won't miss those extra USB ports much.

One USB only !

Posted Jan 19, 2011 16:54 UTC (Wed) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

Arg, that was supposed to say "Brother hl-2270dw laser printer".

One USB only !

Posted Jan 24, 2011 20:21 UTC (Mon) by daniel (guest, #3181) [Link]

"vanishingly small so there's no need to worry about it."

The only reason I can think of for vanishingly small number of people wanting to load photos onto their browser-only netpad is, a vanishingly small number of people bought the thing.

Shell access

Posted Jan 18, 2011 7:10 UTC (Tue) by olof (subscriber, #11729) [Link]

You can get access to "crosh", which has a few services available (including SSH) in an aterm my hitting ctrl-alt-t, without having switched to developer mode.

When you're in developer mode, crosh also includes the option "shell" which starts a regular shell.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 8:56 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (2 responses)

100Mb/month seems terribly small, even for nothing but web browsing: a few Mb a day, a few dozen web pages perhaps. I use easily five times that much just on web browsing without trying and I'm not a heavy user by any means. A couple of YouTube downloads and you've blown half a month's bandwidth... I know mobile plans are usoriously expensive but this seems overly strict even by those standards.

Worse yet:

Even updates are out of the user's hands: they happen when the Chrome OS Gods determine that the time is right.
How does it know you've got any bandwidth left? How do you know how big the update is so as to know how much bandwidth to leave unused?

I must presume that this 100Mb/month thing is an intentionally tiny figure for test devices only, to be boosted to something useful once the system is on sale.

3G

Posted Jan 18, 2011 14:30 UTC (Tue) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (1 responses)

Given the price ($0) and the availability of WiFi most of the time, I thought the 3G access was kind of a nice bonus. Sure, it's not enough for serious work (or serious play), but for the "sit in the cafe and deal with email" use case, it's pretty nice.

3G

Posted Jan 18, 2011 15:13 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Oh, right, it's got wifi as well? I misread and assumed that 3G was its *only* connectivity option.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 9:34 UTC (Tue) by chani (guest, #72423) [Link] (4 responses)

At first I thought, "this could be perfect for my mum."
but wait... how will she copy the photos off her camera? how will she resize them (let alone rotate or crop) before uploading them to facebook?

everyone has *something* they can't do with just a web browser.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 9:56 UTC (Tue) by olof (subscriber, #11729) [Link] (1 responses)

> how will she copy the photos off her camera?

The hardware has an SD reader, but the software support (media browser/file manager) is not yet ready. You can enable a very basic one if you go into the settings (I think), but it's not very pretty.

> how will she resize them (let alone rotate or crop) before uploading them to facebook?

Mugtug Darkroom? Aviary? Picnik?

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 10:42 UTC (Tue) by Velmont (guest, #46433) [Link]

I've done some small HTML5 image uploading tests.

It is very easy to crop and resize the images on the client side before you upload them. You can easily do it in Canvas. I did all processing on the client side, make a normal sized picture, and a thumbnail, then upload both of those two with a nice progress bar.

HTML5 really fixes very much of those problems :-)))

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 10:40 UTC (Tue) by jmalcolm (subscriber, #8876) [Link]

How well these holes get filled will likely be the key factor in how successful this little experiment will be.

Google has already surprised me with some of what I have seen. For example, their plans to build printing support into ChromeOS actually look like they might work. I am not sure what they have planned in terms of device support for things like cameras or media players.

The plug-in problem was the biggest red flag for me. What good is the WebStore if you cannot run the applications you find there. Of course, if this just means making sure there is a flash plug-in or something then I am sure these problems can be solved before ChromeOS launches for real.

The WebStore is clearly meant to be the place where you would find an application to help you perform the kinds of everyday tasks you describe (photo manipulation in your example). There are web sites out there today that do this kind of stuff. If Google or somebody else puts it in an easy to find place (the WebStore) then your Mom might not have problems with her camera after all.

I am sure that Google is hoping that some of us will be less cynical about the potential for ChromeOS and that we will write applications to plug some of these holes. The Android Market has certainly attracted lots of attention. Time will tell if something similar can happen here.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 21:59 UTC (Tue) by jmm82 (guest, #59425) [Link]

Haven't you seen the Microsoft "To the cloud" commercial...I am guessing it will be similar to that.(In no way am in endorsing Microsoft in this post. )

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 11:13 UTC (Tue) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

Replace Chrome OS with Debian and Google services with "FreedomCloud" (aka lotsa FreedomBoxen) then I might recommend this to lots of folks.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 11:18 UTC (Tue) by lmb (subscriber, #39048) [Link] (1 responses)

I really like the idea, and am connected almost always. The cloud as a central data storage and synchronization service is clearly a big win.

However, two things are missing for me: off-line mode that actually makes sense (because I am not always on, think 12h inter-continental flight), and open protocols, which for me includes the ability to connect to private sub-clouds (e.g., my own servers, or my company's), and not just the big vendor lock-in.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 12:51 UTC (Tue) by jhs (guest, #12429) [Link]

That is exactly the point of CouchDB: offline operation and open protocols.

As I said in my other comment, it is very early days. There aren't turn-key applications. Most work is still on developer tooling. But the idea is to run CouchDB (free software) on all your devices. Applications use the local couch, which replicates your data set to and from a cloud (not the cloud, but any cloud; your cloud) over HTTPS, depending on the policy of the user, institution, regulatory environment, or whatever (you might say "free data").

CouchDB has a free software cluster edition (BigCouch) using the Amazon Dynamo architecture built by our very able competitor, Cloudant. CouchDB ships in Ubuntu Desktop and it runs on Android and Maemo with ideally more to come.

P.S. I also fly 12h intercontinental flights all the time. The downtime (and subsequent jet-lag) sucks. I hope sea travel comes back—not a cruise but a modest, Internet-connected, voyage where I can work the whole time and not be jet-lagged!

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 15:45 UTC (Tue) by jengelh (guest, #33263) [Link] (4 responses)

Uh what's the deal with those excessively large Ctrl/Alt/LShift keys?

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 17:27 UTC (Tue) by rillian (subscriber, #11344) [Link]

Compared to a normal US keyboard? There's no "Windows" key; they expanded ctrl and alt to share the space.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 17:34 UTC (Tue) by xxiao (guest, #9631) [Link] (2 responses)

chrome os will be among one of google's failed try-outs, it won't fly.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 18:42 UTC (Tue) by martinfick (subscriber, #4455) [Link]

It does seem kind a like a research project done in the open. I suspect that even if it fails, it will influence other designs, Android at least, if not even other non google OSes, such as Windows.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 22:39 UTC (Tue) by jmm82 (guest, #59425) [Link]

Even if it fails they have already created a nice browser.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 18, 2011 22:01 UTC (Tue) by daniel (guest, #3181) [Link] (1 responses)

A project misconceived from beginning to end, something I could never say while a Googler, it would have been flagged as Ungoogley. That is probably why current Googlers are not willing to take the risk of stating the obvious.

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 3:18 UTC (Wed) by myopiate (guest, #41091) [Link]

I've administered Windows networks because the C programmer was cheaper than a professional network admin. I've been jealous of the Sharepoint guy who earns double what I do because management has a hard on for Sharepoint. It's all such crap. Expensive crap. Low hanging fruit for Google and Google may be tall enough to pick it.

I'm not at all surprised that "Techie" people like myself don't like it. It's going to put some of us out of a job. A product like this is what robots and automation were to factories. Haha, there maybe more symbolism in Google's destroy chromeOS notebook videos than we all realize.

I can see the email in my inbox now. "Is your business expanding and don't know what to buy your project managers/office assistants/sales people? Fire that network administrator and his expensive toys. Buy a ChromeOS notebook. It's cheap, low maintenance and as interchangeable as your workers".

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 14:49 UTC (Wed) by Hanno (guest, #41730) [Link] (2 responses)

If you really worry about having your laptop searched at the US border, a cloud-based system by Google is not much of an advantage, since Google is located in US jurisdiction.

Searches

Posted Jan 19, 2011 14:52 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (1 responses)

Yes, that's why I said it would be nice to be able to back up the data somewhere else.

That said, the border is a sort of constitution-free zone which does not (yet) extend to Google's servers. There is a certain amount of due process which must be followed to get at data stored there which, it seems, is not necessary at the border. So there is a significant advantage to putting the data there, even if the situation remains far from ideal.

Searches

Posted Jan 19, 2011 19:26 UTC (Wed) by jthill (subscriber, #56558) [Link]

Google's servers are more than 100 miles from the coast?

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Jan 19, 2011 17:58 UTC (Wed) by bsamwel (guest, #66171) [Link]

Google Docs might be able to handle a presentation, but the idea of depending on a conference network to be able to give a talk is frightening.

I think HTML5 offline web applications should take care of that, once they're more widely supported by web apps.

Based on Gentoo ...

Posted Jan 21, 2011 2:09 UTC (Fri) by vapier (guest, #15768) [Link] (3 responses)

who said the laptop is based on Ubuntu ? i'm fairly certain it is based on Gentoo. the upstream wiki contains many references to emerge, ebuilds, and USE flags (all of which are hallmarks of only Gentoo), and links directly to Gentoo developer documentation:
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-guide

Based on Gentoo ...

Posted Jan 21, 2011 3:50 UTC (Fri) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link] (2 responses)

It *was* ubuntu-based a long time ago, but then they switched to gentoo at some point.

Based on Gentoo ...

Posted Feb 7, 2011 11:16 UTC (Mon) by wookey (guest, #5501) [Link] (1 responses)

My understanding is that it's deb (ubuntu-based) packages built using the gentoo build system, which seems kind of peverse, but there you go. They started off using xdeb (then called chromium-os-builder) to cross-build ubuntu packages but switched to the gentoo tools after a while. I know this because I'm now looking after the xdeb tool and the chromium-os-builder heritage shows through in many places.

Based on Gentoo ...

Posted Feb 7, 2011 12:14 UTC (Mon) by Darkmere (subscriber, #53695) [Link]

Not that perverse. Gentoo/Portage has had support for generating RPM packages for ages. It's just that it usually doesn't.

Simply abstracting the dependencies/names into the right places, changing the tarball to cpio, and instead of padding with metadata, making it into a "proper" rpm or deb.

So, not quite as perverse as you may think, in fact part of the original design of portage/emerge was to allow it ;)

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Feb 4, 2011 18:57 UTC (Fri) by wad (guest, #69554) [Link]

The Cr-48's Integrity measurement is done without involving the TPM by using a device-mapper target. Boot-time trust in the kernel allows for efficient block level integrity checking which has different applications than linux-ima and avoids some of the performance bottlenecks along the way:

https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/101750/

(The code has clearly changed since then and should be reposted soon.)

The Cr-48 and Chrome OS: Google's vision of the net

Posted Feb 6, 2011 6:16 UTC (Sun) by derat (guest, #59036) [Link]

Minor corrections: The CR-48's processor is single-core rather than dual-core. You can take a screenshot by typing Ctrl-F5 (err, I mean "Next Window"); it'll be written to a "Screenshots" directory within the Downloads directory. Ctrl-Alt-/ toggles an overlay displaying keyboard shortcuts.


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