You must be joking
You must be joking
Posted Nov 7, 2010 4:06 UTC (Sun) by dlang (guest, #313)In reply to: You must be joking by zander76
Parent article: LPC: Life after X
the person up thread who took his class through the process of trying to specify (not even implement) the correct behavior in all conditions probably has a lot of info that would be very interesting and educational if he could take the time to write it up (especially if the writeup can talk about a lot of the dead-ends that seem so attractive)
Posted Nov 7, 2010 4:30 UTC (Sun)
by zander76 (guest, #6889)
[Link]
Students tend to under or over design things. To loosely quote Linus "It's simple to make things complex and complex to make things simple". It does take a fair amount of experience to hit that middle ground.
It is very easy to make a complicated mess especially when you are trying to make everybody in the world happy and address every problem before you start. You will never get passed the design phase.
Now don't get me wrong I am not stating that this is the case. I am simply stating that I could see how this could get way out of control. This is especially true when with students trying to account for every problem. In the working world you tend to spend less time on use cases and more time on getting the job done so you can go home :)
Posted Nov 7, 2010 4:55 UTC (Sun)
by PO8 (guest, #41661)
[Link] (11 responses)
Hope this helps.
Posted Nov 7, 2010 7:53 UTC (Sun)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (7 responses)
I've only been using linux as my primary desktop for 13 years or so, so I'm abit of a novice in understanding all the nuances of why the two are separate in the first place or how to know when each is being used :-)
Posted Nov 8, 2010 6:08 UTC (Mon)
by mfedyk (guest, #55303)
[Link] (4 responses)
I like being able to copy and paste with just the mouse and not having to go through any menus to do so. I end up cursing the lack of that feature whenever I'm on another platform
Posted Nov 8, 2010 7:16 UTC (Mon)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link]
Posted Nov 8, 2010 15:43 UTC (Mon)
by foom (subscriber, #14868)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Nov 8, 2010 21:39 UTC (Mon)
by mfedyk (guest, #55303)
[Link] (1 responses)
Note the "with just the mouse" part...
I use the CLI all the time, but sometimes I don't have a free hand to reach for the keyboard (using screwdriver, using someone else's computer to instruct them, etc.) and just want to do something quickly with the mouse only.
Posted Nov 11, 2010 16:10 UTC (Thu)
by cdmiller (guest, #2813)
[Link]
Posted Nov 8, 2010 13:32 UTC (Mon)
by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
[Link] (1 responses)
X has these things called selections. How they are used is defined outside X, you could run an X server and a suite of apps that had no selections, or had a dozen all named after capital cities. X does not care.
For interoperability you need to agree how to use them. The ICCCM provided a good enough description for its day, but apparently in the late 1990s reading comprehension among software developers declined, and Qt managed to screw it up repeatedly, so there is also a FD.O document which spells it out.
So, this names selections including PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD. The PRIMARY selection is to be set to whatever the user last explicitly selected. By convention apps ask for the contents of this selection and insert it when you press middle-button.
The CLIPBOARD selection is maintained separately by explicit cut or copy operations. Most apps ask for the contents of this selection when you use their paste operation.
Selections are also used in drag-and-drop functionality. They have several features that the average My First Clipboard idea doesn't handle
Low overhead. Rather than storing whatever you select or cut into some OS-provided "clipboard" where it will mysteriously waste a lot of RAM*, the selections exist only in the source application until needed. X just tracks a window ID and a timestamp.
Really the worst problem is that application developers don't care. They refuse to "pay their taxes" as it has been called, by implementing features that require some work on their part to deliver a better experience for the end user across all applications. This isn't just about the clipboard, it's a widespread problem. They may hard-code a date format that annoys non-Americans, or misbehave when multiple monitors are used, or any number of things. And it's not just on X, this is a problem on every platform, only the specifics vary.
I really mean it about them not caring. For a while I filed bugs against apps that got this stuff wrong. But the response was almost always hostile.
* A lot of designs don't consider this. Users expect that somehow the computer "knows" that they intended to just throw away the 50MB of charts they just cut from a document, but they needed to keep the 15MB image they cut the next day. There are no ultimate solutions here, like window focus it's a matter of best effort.
Posted Nov 18, 2010 9:45 UTC (Thu)
by renox (guest, #23785)
[Link]
Which is why, I always look at propositions which want to replace things done by a common server by things done by all the applications with a lot of skepticism..
One of the example is XCB which AFAIK is still not implemented by Qt or GTK even though it was supposed to allow better threading.
Posted Nov 7, 2010 11:20 UTC (Sun)
by quotemstr (subscriber, #45331)
[Link]
Posted Nov 7, 2010 13:58 UTC (Sun)
by foom (subscriber, #14868)
[Link] (1 responses)
> The best means we have for identifying media type right now is MIME-types. Unfortunately, they are really too incomplete and disorganized for CCP purposes. Their ontology is only two levels deep and highly incomplete.
You might be interested to check out Apple's solution to that problem, Uniform Type Identifiers (first introduced in OSX 10.4, it's been slowly introduced into more and more data transfer APIs). They are multi-level hierarchical, where the hierarchy is defined outside of the type-name.
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/File...
Also see the "Pasteboard Concepts" article.
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Coco...
Posted Nov 8, 2010 7:52 UTC (Mon)
by PO8 (guest, #41661)
[Link]
Posted Nov 7, 2010 7:02 UTC (Sun)
by mfedyk (guest, #55303)
[Link]
yes, very much looking forward to this article.
You must be joking
You must be joking
You must be joking
You must be joking
You must be joking
You must be joking
You must be joking
Mouse selection and middle click paste
You must be joking
Content-negotiated. Rather than forcing everything into a lowest common denominator like plain text, the source app can offer various formats and the recipient chooses
Network transparent. So long as you actually do it with X (rather than sending a filename as per some suggestions in this thread) you get network transparency. Copy from the remote xterm, paste into the local web browser.
You must be joking
You must be joking
You must be joking
Apple Pasteboard and UTIs
You must be joking