HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 11, 2010 22:55 UTC (Mon) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
In reply to: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker) by jmm82
Parent article: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Reasonableness is the default standard. It would be not be reasonable to _delay_ release at all, since there is no suggestion in the license that this is permitted. It would be reasonable that you were unable to supply source temporarily due to a technical problem, but the usual excuses (source must be "prepared" in some way) are bullshit, a good lawyer with suitable technical witnesses could rip huge holes in such arguments. Any preparation of substance must necessarily take place _before compilation_ and thus _before distribution_. After that it's not preparation but a cover-up, an attempt to conceal from other licensees information to which they are entitled.

If I wanted to defend myself on such a reasonableness argument, I'd want evidence that I had taken steps to deliver source code and they failed for reasons outside my control e.g. a contractor didn't build the "HTC Linux source" web site I asked for, a CD plant corrupted the image I sent them, that sort of thing. Certainly not "I thought I could do it later your Honour".

When it comes to consumer rights (and the source for your Linux-based device falls squarely into that category IMO), gaming the system is counter-productive. Sooner rather than later either the judiciary or the legislature will "fix" the problem, and they will be a lot more brutal than merely good customer service would dictate. e.g. attempts to deliver the wrong product, deceive the customer about what they'd receive, or just delay delivery until long after payment was taken, led to a new EU regime for distance selling (mail order, web shops etc.) in which consumers can cancel their contract of purchase even after _receiving_ and _using_ the goods you sold them. Unsatisfied customers become in this regime a large net cost, worth considerable effort to avoid.

HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 12, 2010 5:54 UTC (Tue) by fandingo (guest, #67019) [Link] (5 responses)

"...a good lawyer with suitable technical witnesses could rip huge holes in such arguments..."

Not in less than 90 days. The court system is not setup to settle this issue in less time than it will take HTC to release the code.

HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 12, 2010 6:50 UTC (Tue) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (1 responses)

Courts don't typically say "oh, you've fixed it now, case closed". A court case against HTC wouldn't arise solely to obtain the source code for the current phone they ship. Such a court case would prevent HTC from repeating this license violation in the future (since they could no longer reasonably claim some kind of industry expected "grace period" in which they didn't have to comply with the license), and would seek some kind of restitution for the existing license violation. It would also serve as a warning for anyone else seeking to make the same mistake. And if HTC does get away with this, expect to see more companies doing the same; 90 days represents a substantial competitive edge, and since nothing says you can have 90, nothing says you can *only* have 90...

HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 12, 2010 6:53 UTC (Tue) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link]

That said, I also don't think we as a community should jump straight to "court case". We've already tried the step of having developers ask nicely. We need to try the intermediate step of having a lawyer very directly tell them that they've violated the GPL and need to fix the problem, and see if they'll listen. If they still refuse to listen, then absolutely, take it to court, but don't jump straight there from "we asked and they said no", since the variant of "no" they used sounds a lot like "we just don't have a clue". Someone needs to give them a clue, rather than immediately burning them.

HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 12, 2010 6:53 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

It doesn't matter if it takes years to settle this in court, HTC are causing harm to the copyright owners, which does not get undone by releasing the code later.

HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 12, 2010 17:26 UTC (Tue) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link] (1 responses)

This is a situation where contacting customs may be more appropriate than the courts. According to Harald Welte, HTC has a habit of shipping new devices to the US, releasing source after 90 days, and then shipping to Europe (which is why Harald doesn't do anything about it; by the time he can get the evidence to make a claim, the problem has been fixed). If customs in the US knew about this, they could have a corresponding habit of holding HTC shipments until the source was released. Since HTC's motive is likely to have devices in customers' hands generating buzz as soon as possible, this would probably hurry them along quite effectively. Sure, they can try to ship their devices and fix their license compliance before anyone sues them, but the devices wouldn't get there on time if they try it, and they'd lose exactly the edge they're trying to get by cheating.

HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone (Freedom to Tinker)

Posted Oct 13, 2010 3:04 UTC (Wed) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

His comments in full:

http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2010/10/12/#20101012-h...