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Why care about upstream?

Why care about upstream?

Posted Aug 11, 2010 1:30 UTC (Wed) by rahvin (guest, #16953)
In reply to: Why care about upstream? by farnz
Parent article: Ubuntu: "We have no plans to fork GNOME" (derStandard.at)

They dislike being called on it because it's the truth. It's rather well accepted psychology that no one likes to have their hypocrisy publicized and commented on and will react very negatively when it does occur. Shuttleworth/Canonical/Ubuntu have engaged in numerous public events where they lauded the Ubuntu approach and either chastised the community or made suggestions on cooperation (depending on your point of view mostly) then proceeded down the same path the community has been criticizing them on for 5 years or more of near zero upstream cooperation.

Let's be honest people, we've been talking about Ubuntu needing to move more stuff upstream for a VERY long time and little to no progress has been made on that front. The community gave him multiple years to get things going before serious criticism even started. Shuttleworth talks a good game and I'll even admit they make good suggestions from time to time and do some very good things, but he runs his business like he's in the standard proprietary software business. Copyright assignment, keeping key components proprietary and closed source, throw it over the wall open source and numerous other actions that do little to advance free software. The worst thing about it is the community has been discussing all this bad behavior for several years and very little has changed. I came to the conclusion about a year ago that nothing will ever change and as a result Ubuntu will die eventually.

RedHat's success (even SUSE to a lesser degree) has a lot to do with their complete commitment to open source, their prioritizing of upstreaming everything possible and taking valid criticism and making changes. I can remember a lot of mistakes Redhat made over the years (bluecurve has been mentioned but there have been dozens of incidents) but rather than continuing the same policies they take the criticism seriously for the most part and adapt their policies. Shuttleworth/Canonical seem to approach everything as if it's their choice and nothing else or anyone else's opinion matter. For all his talk he still apparently doesn't get FOSS and for that reason alone I don't see Ubuntu as a long term success. Once Shuttleworth cuts off his private funding it's a dead company and a lot of that has to do with their policies IMO.


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Why care about upstream?

Posted Aug 11, 2010 10:01 UTC (Wed) by hppnq (guest, #14462) [Link]

RedHat's success (even SUSE to a lesser degree) has a lot to do with their complete commitment to open source, their prioritizing of upstreaming everything possible and taking valid criticism and making changes.

Apple is also a believer. They are very successful.

If you define "success" as "number of commits to an upstream Open Source repository", you will undoubtedly find that Red Hat tops the list. It is a rather arbitrary metric, of course. The real success -- as in how much money did we make -- of both Red Hat and Novell is to be found in the datacenter. Both Red Hat and Novell are completely committed to selling their products and services, like any other business. Expecting a company to act in any other particular way is just silly.

In my experience the road into the datacenter has nothing to do at all with whether or not the source is open, and both Red Hat and Novell have a track record that reflects this. It is because Red Hat and even Novell are successful in the datacenter that they can dedicate resources to Free Software development, not the other way around.

People should stop wasting their time and energy on the "debate" about who should contribute what, indeed. It numbs the mind. We have sports on television for that.

(Oh, and if you insist on having this debate, try to grasp the difference between a company and a distribution.)


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