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The road forward for systemd

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 26, 2010 18:18 UTC (Wed) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715)
In reply to: The road forward for systemd by Cyberax
Parent article: The road forward for systemd


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The road forward for systemd

Posted May 26, 2010 18:33 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (4 responses)

Care to provide even more trivial links without addressing a single line in my post?

Lennart also is misguided - target based systems are NOT good. Most of users _need_ NetworkManager to be started as soon as possible.

In essence, the goal is usually 'run everything ASAP' and not just 'run GNOME'. There are generally very little subsystems that don't need to be started on each boot.

However, sometimes we DO need to delay some service (a good example is CUPS). And that's where his ideas might be useful.

'Involuntary confinement' with cgroups might also be useful as an optional feature in Upstart or other init systems (even in standard Sys-V-ish daemon startup scripts).

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 26, 2010 18:44 UTC (Wed) by mezcalero (subscriber, #45103) [Link] (2 responses)

you have not read the blog story. please do that. then you'll see that your comments are mislead.

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 26, 2010 22:51 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

Sorry, your mind-reading ability has failed you.

So go and read MY post - it contains valid objections.

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 31, 2010 16:16 UTC (Mon) by mezcalero (subscriber, #45103) [Link]

Because if you had read it you should have understood that in fact we start all services at the same time, in one big transaction. So if you try to argue against systemd by saying things like "Most of users _need_ NetworkManager to be started as soon as possible" then it is clear that you have not understood who systemd works: because in fact we start nm much earlier than Upstart or SysV: we start it right at the same time as we also start Syslog and D-Bus.

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 27, 2010 14:21 UTC (Thu) by buchanmilne (guest, #42315) [Link]

Most of users _need_ NetworkManager to be started as soon as possible.
AFAICT, systemd should start NetworkManager sooner, because systemd won't wait for (e.g.) messagebus to finish starting before starting NetworkManager. If there are any other D-Bus-based services that NetworkManager requires (maybe wpa_supplicant?, sorry, my distro doesn't use NetworkManager, and all network interfaces come up very early, including WiFi ...), they will also be started in parallel. This is covered in the blog post.
In essence, the goal is usually 'run everything ASAP' and not just 'run GNOME'.
Where do you see this goal of 'run GNOME'? It's certainly not in the systemd blog post ...
However, sometimes we DO need to delay some service (a good example is CUPS)
Quote from the blog post:
Same for a printing system: unless the machine physically is connected to a printer, or an application wants to print something, there is no need to run a printing daemon such as CUPS
Did you read the blog post?

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 26, 2010 21:11 UTC (Wed) by sebas (guest, #51660) [Link] (3 responses)

To be perfectly honest, this is tiresome.

There's a number of posts in this thread that would, in my opinion, at least qualify to get a short answer, possibly referring to the full article, instead of just being brushed off like this.

Denying anybody the right to comment when the original post (which is quite lengthy indeed) hasn't been fully read, or understood might be OK from a "let's save us all time (especially myself)" point of view, but it also kills off discussions that would otherwise contribute to a better understanding of why the world needs yet another, incompatible system to start their OS. (Yes, not a given, people don't like changes without immediate, positive net effects, and rightfully so.)

More importantly, what systemd needs, especially in its early and uncertain phase of development, is awareness. You don't create that by killing off discussions, you create that by patiently explaining people what it is, does, its benefits and disadvantages. Over and over.

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 27, 2010 14:34 UTC (Thu) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (2 responses)

Yeah, it's a bit like "you haven't read Marx, how dare you talk about the Economy?"

What about a short FAQ?

Think about the "F" in "FAQ" for a minute. My guess is that this "F" must somehow be related to all these stupid people not RTFM (with a different "F").

The road forward for systemd

Posted May 31, 2010 16:19 UTC (Mon) by mezcalero (subscriber, #45103) [Link] (1 responses)

Hmm, this is funny. Because the original blog story actually includes an FAQ! Have *you* read it?

The road forward for systemd

Posted Jun 7, 2010 20:06 UTC (Mon) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

At this time, the blog includes a mostly political (and buried) FAQ that does not answer any technical question.

This blog is light years away from being a good systemd sales pitch. That's perfectly OK as long as you do not get angry and annoying when people fail to read between its (too numerous) lines.

Just try to compare your blog to any LWN article and you might understand better the misunderstandings happening here.


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