Greg Kroah-Hartman: Android and the Linux kernel community

Control is "a pragmatic thing" - at least from the point of view of the control-holder. The point is, it's often seen as easier and more easily profitable to retain control over something than to let someone else have influence over one's business plans. The reason "Linux people" (I take it you are NOT a "Linux person"?) tend to be sensitive to this is because of how often it becomes a roadblock. Proprietary data formats, proprietary video and audio codecs, software patents, digital restrictions, proprietary hardware, trademark and copyright licensing... all there to retain control. Apple's profitability seems like a pretty good demonstration of how iron-fisted control can be pragmatic.

I recognize that if it were the case that Google just doesn't want to deal with working out compromises with mainline kernel developers that this would probably be a purely pragmatic decision, perhaps on the assumption that not having to do so would decrease delays in Android development, and perhaps, like Apple, make it easier to control the perception of the Android brand (reducing the chance that a change somewhere in the kernel that Google doesn't operate on inadvertently causing performance problems for Android, for example).

Obviously not everyone agrees that this is the best course of action in the long run, otherwise there wouldn't be all the arguing and occasional light snark that we're seeing over this. It doesn't help that Google occasionally does things that make people question its attitude towards Linux - Google often seems reluctant to port their standalone applications to Linux, for example. Admittedly this doesn't affect me as much, since the one Google application that I really like to use has maintained pretty good Linux support...so far. I just hope Marble develops fast enough to take over before Google decides to quietly drop development on the Linux versions of Google Earth...

tl;dr - Google's motives likely are pragmatic rather than malicious, but from this discussion they really don't seem to like having to deal with mainline Linux development and a lot of people seem concerned about how this might cause problems for users of mainline Linux if Google decides to walk away.

It's probably really strange that I feel compelled to post here - especially more than once. I'm not a developer nor do I even know any developers personally, I'm not wealthy enough to own Google stock, I don't own an Android-based device (although I would be happy to get one, I must confess I'd rather have something maemo-based...), and whether or not "wakelocks" ever get implemented in the Linux kernel almost certainly has zero direct effect on me. I think the only link I have to anyone with a direct stake in all this is that Greg KH maintains the staging tree where the only currently-working driver for my netbook's wireless network chipset resides. Why the heck do I care so much?...

There. That (I think) is the entire point around which the argument turns. The rest of the PR fluff, hyperbole, and accusations flying in both directions seem to be obscuring this.

(the following paragraph is based on my potentially-faulty understading of the Android development timeline - corrections welcome.)

I understand Google doing the early development of Android in relative secrecy - it was probably the only way to get it working and have it out in the market before a surprised Apple/Microsoft/Etc. could stall it with patent lawsuits and whatnot. The customizations apparently surprised the mainline Linux developers too, though. "Here it is, mainline developers. Take it or leave it, but it's too late to change anything now that it's out." "What? What's all this? It looks like it has some problems." "You're leaving it then? Fine."

I understand the business reasons that I assume Google had for doing things this way. It's the way that it's being presented that seems to be stoking the fires.

There's the presentation thing again. If "us" and "our" are read to mean "Google", it reads an awful lot like "And anyway, what are you Linux people gonna do to us it if we don't get our code upstream? Nothing, that's what!"

I'm guessing you just meant to convey that some code living independent of the mainline Linux kernel with no intention of ever being in the mainline kernel isn't the proverbial end of the world. I agree, actually - but it's still not unimportant.

Here's my hypothesis, developed with all of the insightfulness and wisdom of a Random Pseudonymous Commenter:

Google is a huge, wealthy, influential corporation who is known to use a lot of Linux and therefore presumably has some sense of its worth, but now has split off its own "Android Linux" kernel, with some incompatibilities with the mainline kernel. There seems to be some fear that Big Powerful Google will attract more device-makers to write Linux drivers (which is a great thing), but said drivers will be written specifically for "Android Linux" and not everybody-else Linux (which is not so great) because who wants to, for example, write and maintain "wakelocks" and "no-wakelocks" versions of their drivers separately? This doesn't seem like an unreasonable prediction if Google is really dumping mainline Linux ("but we can still be friends, and that's okay...").

Sure, even if Google ends up just "throwing code over the wall" where mainline developers can sift through it and work on the task of translating the drivers to work on everybody-else-Linux, that IS much better than nothing at all. But it kind of hurts compared to what a more unified collaboration might accomplish.

And after all this, I'm STILL not entirely sure why I, personally, even care, but I do...

I swear that unless someone indicates they want me to reply to something I'm going to digitally shut up here after this post, but that "Linux people" comment is bugging me.

"Wow, what is it with Linux people[...]"

You're the "Android Open Source and Compatibility Lead" and obviously have some role in Android development that puts you in a place to understand at least some of the technicalities of Linux kernel development - certainly more than me, at least. Despite this, you've just gone to the effort of coming here into the midst of a bunch of "Linux people" worried about potential compatibility issues between mainline Linux and Android Linux and implicitly declared yourself "not a Linux person". I don't get it.

The "[Linux|Open Source] people are impractical for caring about compatibility and licensing and patents and stuff that consumers don't care about" meme seems to pop up a lot lately. Most of the time it's just obvious annoying trolling, or sometimes a blogger or "pod"caster who appears to think that saying so will buy them more "mainstream" credibility, but seeing even small signs of it from the "Android Open Source and Compatibility Lead" is vaguely disturbing.

Please tell me this is just a matter of "posting while ticked off" and not really the way Google feels about things...