KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
Posted Dec 8, 2009 1:23 UTC (Tue) by xorbe (guest, #3165)In reply to: KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released by alecs1
Parent article: KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
Posted Dec 8, 2009 8:53 UTC (Tue)
by Janne (guest, #40891)
[Link] (15 responses)
Now, if some people really love that confusing pile of random features, they are totally free to keep on using it or hack the codebase themselves. Funny thing is that no-one seems to be interested in doing that. No, what they do instead is to complain about it.
I for one commend the KDE-team for doing the brave thing, and letting go of the past. It's quite obvious to me that KDE3 had run it's course and it didn't really have any future. What KDE needed was a clean break from the past and a new direction that lets the project grow.
Had KDE continued with KDE3, we would have had another GNOME (I love GNOME as well, so don't flame me) in our hands, where each new release brings with it a handful of new minor features and some polish, and that's it. the desktop would be more or less identical from version to version.
In short: stagnation.
What I see KDE4 doing is to take the polish and ease of use from GNOME, and combine it with functionality from KDE3. Now, it could be argued that KDE4 hasn't yet reached GNOME in polish or ease of use, and/or that it hasn't yet reached KDE3 when it comes to functionality, but they have chosen the correct path. GNOME is stagnating, KDE3 was a dead-end. KDE4 is moving along faster than KDE3 ever did.
Sure, KDE3 might have had some specific features that you came to rely on, and those features are not in KDE4. But that's hardly a reason to demand that KDE4 should be killed in favor of KDE 3.6. Sometimes we have to keep on using older systems for a while, or we need to adjust the way we work. expecting that new versions of software must have all the features of the previous version, and those features must work identically is disingenuous in the extreme. It would mean that the software could only become more complicated and that no innovation is possible. By that logic, KDE should still be more or less identical to very first version of KDE!
Posted Dec 8, 2009 19:10 UTC (Tue)
by JoeF (guest, #4486)
[Link] (14 responses)
What I see KDE4 doing is to take the polish and ease of use from GNOME, and combine it with functionality from KDE3. Now, it could be argued that KDE4 hasn't yet reached GNOME in polish or ease of use, and/or that it hasn't yet reached KDE3 when it comes to functionality, but they have chosen the correct path.
Posted Dec 9, 2009 10:57 UTC (Wed)
by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784)
[Link] (13 responses)
Posted Dec 9, 2009 11:17 UTC (Wed)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link] (12 responses)
I'm wondering what makes people phrase these things so negatively... Maybe it's more fun to
write or makes them feel better about themselves.
What you said could easily be phrased as "KDE 4.0 was released for developers to enable them
to start porting their applications." That phrasing has the twin advantages of being more more
accurate and more insightful. (As well as being politer to all the volunteers who have put in many
hours of labour into the work, but that might not be seen as an advantage.)
Posted Dec 9, 2009 14:18 UTC (Wed)
by alankila (guest, #47141)
[Link] (7 responses)
Thus, distros were forced to put 4.0 to the masses, or face the prospect of supporting 3.5 themselves. It all worked, I guess, if your purpose was to drag people kicking and screaming into the 4.0 land to act as unwilling beta testers. Unfortunately, 4.0 worked so poorly that people -- me included -- were soured on KDE.
Posted Dec 9, 2009 14:35 UTC (Wed)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (5 responses)
So let's just bury the past, the lessons were learned and we can all now move forward.
My guess is that 4.4 will be fairly great and 4.5 will have fixes for every ones problems (great KDE browser, good Office apps, activity management that does not suck etc.)
Posted Dec 9, 2009 16:01 UTC (Wed)
by JoeF (guest, #4486)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Dec 9, 2009 17:47 UTC (Wed)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (3 responses)
All the key KDE people I know are very very nice people, but they still are only human. And compared to Gnome the number of volunteers compared to full time devs is higher. So don't expect too much maintenance work done .. (that is something KDE 4.0 might have change. See my previous post.)
And maybe KDE is more European and maybe US devs are a little bit nicer (in their special shallow way) than German or French .. IDK.
Posted Dec 9, 2009 18:37 UTC (Wed)
by JoeF (guest, #4486)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Dec 10, 2009 18:09 UTC (Thu)
by kragil (guest, #34373)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Dec 10, 2009 21:52 UTC (Thu)
by JoeF (guest, #4486)
[Link]
Posted Dec 11, 2009 23:42 UTC (Fri)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link]
Our 3.5 release was supported long after 4.0 was released. Still works
Posted Dec 9, 2009 15:54 UTC (Wed)
by JoeF (guest, #4486)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Dec 9, 2009 16:52 UTC (Wed)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link] (2 responses)
Except it is. KDE 3.5 was supported and got releases after 4.0 was
released. Ergo, it was supported.
KDE 3.5.10 was released after KDE 4.1, even. And KDE 4.1 was a version
with which I, at least, could be just as productive as with 3.5. I could
read mail, the websites I follow, write the texts I needed and develop the
applications I was working on.
And even now, companies like KDAB are working on features for the PIM
applications of KDE 3.5.
Posted Dec 9, 2009 18:47 UTC (Wed)
by JoeF (guest, #4486)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Dec 11, 2009 23:50 UTC (Fri)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link]
This is probably gonna be better in the future now more and more companies
And about the 4.0 to early: the only thing I personally regret was the
Releasing 4.0, besides the communication screw-up which hurt our users,
Posted Dec 10, 2009 17:08 UTC (Thu)
by juanjux (guest, #11652)
[Link]
Congratulations for the KDE team, and thanks for not committing suicide
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
Had KDE continued with KDE3, we would have had another GNOME (I love GNOME as well, so don't flame me) in our hands, where each new release brings with it a handful of new minor features and some polish, and that's it. the desktop would be more or less identical from version to version.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
You say that as if it is a bad thing.
Having a familiar desktop is a good thing, even if the underlying code is different. We don't need to emulate that company from Redmond, which changes the desktop completely with every new release.
Now, that of course doesn't mean stagnation, just a more gradual path.
Sure, but they released it way too early, when it wasn't ready for prime time yet. That (again) reminds me of that company in Redmond. They always need three releases before their stuff becomes usable.
KDE 4.3 has been the first KDE 4 release that, quite frankly, didn't suck. So, it seems they are getting there, but they could have saved themselves (and others) a lot of grief if they had handled the releases differently. But I guess that's water under the bridge.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
So let's just bury the past, the lessons were learned and we can all now move forward.KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
I am not so sure that the lessons have been learned by the KDE people...
I see a lot of rather rude comments, like in this thread (prime example: "no one cares what you think") whenever "normal" people say anything against KDE4 and pro KDE 3. That attitude troubles me. It is somewhat understandable since they had to deal with a lot of negativity after KDE 4.0 came out, but nevertheless, insulting your users is not the way to go.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
Is that Adi dude even KDE? IDK and it is not like people are always super friendly and caring on the LKML eitherKDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
I don't know if that person is a KDE developer, but aseigo is and he wasn't much friendlier, either: "how disengenous to the point of dishonesty"...
As far as the tone on LKML, that's a developer mailing list. LWN certainly is not targeting developers in particular.
And the issue with niceness has nothing to do with being US-based or European-based. I am a European living in the US. If anything, I have seen Europeans being nicer than Americans.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
26th August 2008 - KDE 3.5.10 Released
"KDE Community Ships Tenth Maintenance Update for Fourth Major Version
for Leading Free Software Desktop."
29th July 2008 - KDE 4.1 Released
"KDE Community Ships Major Update to Leading Free Software Desktop."
fine and is shipped by some distributions.
What you said could easily be phrased as "KDE 4.0 was released for developers to enable them to start porting their applications." That phrasing has the twin advantages of being more more accurate and more insightful.KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
Except that it isn't.
That would imply that the old version, KDE 3.5, would continue to be supported until KDE 4 was ready for the masses. But that's not what happened. With the release of KDE 4.0, KDE 3.5 became abandonware.
That fiasco soured me quite a bit on KDE 4. Tried it, found that it sucked, went back to KDE 3. And I haven't decided yet if I switch to KDE 4 or another window manager.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
However, applications like Kopete didn't get any updates, like getting it working after Yahoo changed their protocol.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
But you've got to remember - we're not a company with top-down control,
we're just a bunch of volunteers each doing their own thing. Sure, we
coordinate, communicate, plan. But in the end - it's our own time, not
KDE's. There is only so much boring work you're willing to do until you
wear out and stop caring altogether.
are starting up around KDE products and maintaining them - like said
above, KDE PIM 3.5.x continues to be mantained even to this day.
release announcement. It was to positive, should have contained a clear
"this is not meant for end-users". We said that on blogs and stuff, and if
you're as immersed in the community as most contributors are, you might
think that's enough. However, the announcements are read by a far wider
audience, and this created pressure on the distributions to do the stupid
thing we told them not to - ship KDE 4.0. As marketing dude I'm in part to
blame for that, and I think we DID learn our lesson. The 4.1 release, the
KOffice 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2 release announcements all contained clear
messaging: not ready for end users yet.
still had the intended effects - new developers and much happier current
developers. I'm sure we'd have done it again if we had the choice, it was
the right thing to do. Just should have communicated better so users would
not have been forced by distributions to use 4.0.
KDE Software Compilation 4.4 Beta1 Released
but has lots of quirks. 4.3 is pretty good, stable, fast and the glitches
are few and nonimportant (for me.) 4.4 will probably be pretty awesome.
after the 4.0 critics ;)