The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
So why has this project taken so long? What it came down to is that your editor concluded that he was not sufficiently qualified to rip out a functioning accounting system and replace it with something out of a CVS server somewhere. There is simply too much to know about how the accounting system ties into the company's operations, how our accountant uses it, and how it helps keep the tax agencies happy and the company's officers out of jail. That latter point became especially relevant as LWN's longtime bookkeeper and occasional contributor Dennis Tenney headed off to pursue other opportunities, leaving your editor to take up the legally-liable Treasurer position.
In other words, swapping out the accounting system isn't something to be done on a whim, like, say, putting an -rc1 development kernel onto the production server. Whatever is there has to work. So your editor concluded that the first step in this process was to take over the existing system and come to understand it well enough to be able to properly think about a replacement. After closing out the 2008 books, your editor is able to come to a preliminary conclusion: it is almost possible for a small business to dump a system like QuickBooks and use a free alternative. Almost.
There is an interesting gap in the free software community's offerings in this area. A very small business - one involving a sole proprietor, for example - can use a tool like GnuCash to great effect. Almost everything which is needed is there, and most functions work quite well. On the other hand, a very large operation wanting to install a full-scale ERP system has a wealth of options: Compiere, Adempiere, various packages based on OFBiz, and more. If your operation is willing and able to dedicate full-time staff to developing a customized ERP system and keeping it going, there are plenty of frameworks to start with. These systems are not drop-in tools usable by a small business, though.
Small businesses occupy a niche between the sole proprietor and the massive enterprise. At this level, there's not a whole lot available from the free software community. The most active projects appear to be SQL-Ledger, its fork LedgerSMB, and PostBooks. All three work on top of a PostgreSQL database; SQL-Ledger and LedgerSMB are web-based, while PostBooks is a Qt application. Your editor's sense, at this point, is that PostBooks looks like the most advanced, most ambitious, and most actively-developed project among these three. It is, however, tricky to get running, its development model appears to be strongly cathedral-style (there isn't even a project mailing list), and it is distributed under the questionably-free (though OSI-certified) CPAL license. PostBooks has the look of a classic piece of corporate-controlled open source.
Any of the packages listed above (and GnuCash too) will do basic double-entry accounting. They can produce pie charts, reconcile accounts, and so on. Since they use PostgreSQL with an open (if sometimes poorly documented) schema, integrating them with the rest of the business should be relatively straightforward. They are, in essence, almost everything which is needed to enable a business to move away from a package like QuickBooks.
[PULL QUOTE: The key word is "almost." As far as your editor can tell, there are two crucial bits missing. END QUOTE] The key word is "almost." As far as your editor can tell, there are two crucial bits missing: tax form printing and accountant interfaces.
On the first point: this is the time of year when LWN produces 1099 forms for each of its guest authors - at least, for those who pay their tribute to the U.S. A related form (1096) then goes off to the Internal Revenue Service so they can ensure that none of our authors tries to hide the vast amounts of money we pay them. A tool like QuickBooks tracks payments to outside contractors, and will happily print the requisite forms onto special stock which can be purchased, at exorbitant prices, directly from the application itself. There is no equivalent functionality in the free packages, currently.
In truth, this is an area where free software tends to struggle. The printing of tax forms is just not a task which inspires hackers; it is tedious, subject to highly finicky requirements, and is, for all that it may be considered necessary, somewhat distasteful. This work must be revisited every year as the requirements are subject to the whims of legislators and regulatory agencies. And, lest that challenge seem insufficient, one should also bear in mind that every country's requirements are different, so all this work must be repeated many times over.
Creating this kind of code (and keeping it current) is not fun, it requires some specialized domain knowledge, and it can carry certain kinds of legal liabilities. So it's no wonder that a hacker with some free time will, upon considering this kind of task, usually decide to work on enhancing that Klingon translation of OpenOffice.org instead. The Klingons tend to be more forgiving of bugs.
On the accounting side, the problem gets even worse. A typical business accountant uses proprietary software which, in turn, contains a great deal of knowledge of the tax code. Not all countries have a tax system as twisted and complex as the U.S., but the problem is never simple. Your editor believes that it would be entirely reasonable to require governments to provide free software which interprets its tax codes for ordinary citizens, along with a guarantee that, as long as said citizens fed honest numbers to the system, they would not be subject to penalties if the resulting tax calculation were incorrect. In the real world, though, the job of providing such software falls to companies with a squad of on-staff tax lawyers and a firmly proprietary approach to software distribution. That situation does not appear to be likely to change anytime soon.
For the accountant to use his proprietary tools to come to conclusions about a company's tax situation, he must be able to enter quite a bit of data about where the company's money came from and how it was used. There are a couple of ways in which this can be done: (1) it can be manually entered, at great expense to the company involved, or (2) it can be directly imported from the company's accounting system for free. Small companies tend to be quite sensitive to things involving increased expenses, especially when the expense is for an already unwelcome task like tax compliance. So there is great value in having an accounting system which can export data directly to an accountant's tax preparation tools.
In an ideal world, there would be a nice, XML-based format involving large numbers of acronyms which would make this interoperability possible. In the real world, these formats are proprietary and undocumented. So exporting data to the accountant is not really possible with free tools. And that is the single biggest roadblock to the use of free accounting software in any company whose accounts are even remotely complex. Until free programs can export something which looks like the QuickBooks "accountant's copy," they will not be usable in this context.
What makes this situation even more sad is that, as your editor can now attest through painful experience, QuickBooks really does not have much else to offer. Its interfaces are tedious and error-prone; in many ways, free software has done a much better job. As an example, GnuCash will happily import account data from a bank or credit card company, apply default accounts (categories) learned from experience, filter out any duplicate entries, and allow the user to verify and adjust the whole operation before applying it. QuickBooks is, shall we say, nowhere near as accommodating. Your editor ran into a bug (in QuickBooks 2009) which causes the import operation to fail halfway through; a quick search turned up reports of that bug from 2003. There are reasons why any discussion of QuickBooks harps on the need to perform backups frequently - every fifteen minutes or so is good. Your editor has had to restore those backups many times; meanwhile, use of GnuCash over several years has never, ever resulted in a corrupted database.
What it comes down to is that we have solved at least 95% of this problem, and we have done a better job than the proprietary software companies have. But the remaining gaps are crippling, and they are hard to fill. Accounting file formats are more obscure than, say, document formats; there is no effort to create an OpenLedger specification. Any attempt to create files in those formats from free software is likely to involve reverse engineering efforts, and that will be an error-prone process in an area where errors are most unwelcome. So we may well be stuck with proprietary accounting software for some time yet.
That said, your editor does not intend to give up. There will be ongoing
discussions with the accountant and continued tracking of free accounting
system projects. The free software community has solved no end of
difficult problems over the years; we should be able to find a way to
take care of this one too. Stay tuned; hopefully the next update will not
be so long in coming.
Posted Jan 13, 2009 17:41 UTC (Tue)
by awolfe (guest, #7092)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 14, 2009 0:28 UTC (Wed)
by elanthis (guest, #6227)
[Link] (1 responses)
The site advertises "minimal use of JavaScript for browser compatibility" which is total BS. Using a JavaScript framework (e.g. jQuery) would allow webERP to get a far more responsive UI (less full page reloads) and make it more visually appealing without sacrificing any browser compatibility. Welcome to 2009. ;)
The webERP feature set is certainly impressive though. Really impressive. It does still lack the tax form support the article author was lamenting over, however.
Posted Jan 14, 2009 6:48 UTC (Wed)
by awolfe (guest, #7092)
[Link]
They have some AJAX right now in CVS, and they are further extending it. "To javascript or not to javascript" was apparently a contentious issue for awhile. I think they settled on using the Prototype JS framework. I don't know when they are planning to release it.
WebERP has a nice feature set and a solid feel. There is an active development and user community. And they have real accountants on the core team. A comment on another thread suggested tackling the tax form issue by setting up report templates that output onto preprinted forms. There may already be some usable templates floating around for a starting point.
Posted Jan 13, 2009 18:00 UTC (Tue)
by jdahlin (subscriber, #14990)
[Link]
http://www.stoq.com.br/ (half-translated site, but there's a livecd with english localization)
Primarily aimed towards Point Of Sale though.
Posted Jan 13, 2009 18:43 UTC (Tue)
by DG (subscriber, #16978)
[Link]
So, like you, we're stuck with Quickbooks. We'd love to move onto something else... but for the cost of £80-100 per year, any move needs to be almost painfree (i.e. no manual data entry) and the application needs to be able to understand VAT and payroll 'stuff'.
(Payroll wise there is http://www.paythyme.co.uk - but it doesn't integrate with Quickbooks).
I really don't like Quickbooks, and it's removal would allow our company to be 100% OSS...
Posted Jan 13, 2009 20:14 UTC (Tue)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (3 responses)
the other option is that most banks have a XML interface to allow software to query your account (you have to trust your software with your banking credentials), the interface even has public documentation (search for OFX)
how you find this information for your bank is the problem, but it's not quite as bad as you indicate
Posted Jan 13, 2009 20:17 UTC (Tue)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 13, 2009 20:37 UTC (Tue)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (1 responses)
besides being a good idea for compatibility, it would also be a good idea in terms of avoiding product lock-in (since almost everything can import your data from quicken, being able to export to quicken would let you migrate your data from one package to another)
if nothing else, this would let you use the open software for your day-to-day activities and then export to quickbooks for the tax stuff (yes you end up dealing with the proprietary software, but you are able to avoid it's limitations most of the time)
Posted Jan 15, 2009 22:35 UTC (Thu)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link]
Quicken files such as you would use to import bank account information from your bank to Quicken do not carry the same kind of information that your accountant needs to determine how much tax your business owes. So I don't think this format has any bearing on the difficulty in substituting another bookkeeping program for Quickbooks.
Posted Jan 13, 2009 21:31 UTC (Tue)
by boog (subscriber, #30882)
[Link]
The solution is of course to start a project. I'm not volunteering :-) But there is quite a large community of business and accounting packages developing. Maybe now they've read it here, they can get together and produce a sane and general specification. No doubt it will be better than QuickBooks' output. Somebody will start to use it eventually - either an existing tax accountant's program or a free replacement.
Posted Jan 13, 2009 21:36 UTC (Tue)
by nas (subscriber, #17)
[Link] (1 responses)
The least aggravating tool I have found so far is John Wiegley's Ledger. It is perhaps not right for you since it doesn't know anything about tax forms or laws. It is just a lean and mean text based double entry accounting system (mechanism, not policy).
John's ledger program has some quirks and I'm hoping that BeanCount will become a usable replacement. Unfortunately it seems like the hg code is broken (at least it didn't work for me). Martin Blais has a nice document explaining why double-entry accounting is goodness.
I have an idea of writing a GUI for basic transaction entry using Tkinter and making liberal use of the autocomplete entry field. Autocomplete greatly speeds up data entry if used well. Need more hours in the day. ;-)
Posted Jan 30, 2009 3:38 UTC (Fri)
by Simon80 (subscriber, #50887)
[Link]
Have you tried GnuCash?
Posted Jan 13, 2009 22:15 UTC (Tue)
by ibukanov (subscriber, #3942)
[Link] (6 responses)
Once in 1998 I was involved in a web project where one of the requirements was printing of some forms from a browser. The solution was to generate PDF using server-side JavaScript. Since the resulting PDFs must be small for quick downloads over slow modems, it was not possible to use scanned images of the original forms.
So we ended up using a ruler and magnifying glass to measure all the lines and fonts to reconstruct the forms more-or-less precisely using PDF's vector graphics and default fonts. That was rather challenging!
Posted Jan 13, 2009 22:35 UTC (Tue)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link] (3 responses)
they don't have to be identical to the paper forms (especially in terms of shading, boxes to fill in, etc) they need to be in the right order with the data clearly displayed.
finding out exactly what is acceptable requires talking to the IRS (with the corresponding communications effort), while duplicating the paper forms can be done by anyone (with considerably more technical effort to duplicate things that probably aren't significant anyway)
Posted Jan 13, 2009 23:49 UTC (Tue)
by iabervon (subscriber, #722)
[Link] (2 responses)
On the other hand, the IRS doesn't even get the 1099s in general, and they've only got a few numbers, so you could probably make a sufficient 1099 in HTML without any particular difficulty.
Posted Jan 15, 2009 18:48 UTC (Thu)
by kingdon (guest, #4526)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 23, 2009 23:29 UTC (Fri)
by dfsmith (guest, #20302)
[Link]
The IRS will mail 1099 forms to you for free if you order them on their web site. Surprisingly, they're quite efficient. You will need an impact printer or well-limbered hand to fill them out though! (We send out fewer than 20 a year.) I also reviewed the open-source and proprietary accounting programs. I settled on Quickbooks 95 (yes, 1995!) because...
Posted Jan 14, 2009 15:29 UTC (Wed)
by pzb (guest, #656)
[Link]
Posted Jan 15, 2009 2:54 UTC (Thu)
by Tara_Li (guest, #26706)
[Link]
I think a lot of the forms are provided in SGML or XML, too.
Posted Jan 13, 2009 23:07 UTC (Tue)
by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501)
[Link] (3 responses)
Should be able to provide valid Israeli tax reports. The author has spent quite some time with his accountant getting it this way. He now provides it generally as free software, but also provides payed support and hosted installations.
Posted Jan 15, 2009 9:14 UTC (Thu)
by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501)
[Link] (2 responses)
In Israel there should be an open and unified reporting format. Drorit has been supporting it since the beginning of 2008.
Posted Jan 16, 2009 6:11 UTC (Fri)
by roelofs (guest, #2599)
[Link] (1 responses)
Use the URL generated by the "send a subscriber link" button (or whatever it's called).
Greg
Posted Jan 16, 2009 11:52 UTC (Fri)
by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2009 23:11 UTC (Tue)
by rasjidw (guest, #15913)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2009 23:45 UTC (Tue)
by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
[Link] (4 responses)
Maybe the right angle to look at this from is the accountant's. Suppose you're an accountant. If I'm starting a new business I have no reason to choose you over another accountant. You both want me to use QuickBooks, which sucks. But suppose you can make it possible for me to use GnuCash. GnuCash sucks much less than Quicken, maybe not enough that I'd pay extra, but enough that I would hire you rather than the other accountant who requires QuickBooks.
In the US, what are the legal and practical restrictions on locality of your accountant? Would an accountant who took GnuCash files as "accounts" be able to work with companies anywhere in the state? More widely? Less widely? Because if we imagine one accountant is handling 50% of the small Free Software businesses in California, that's a lot of work == income. It seems like it would be worth going to some trouble to secure that work. And if QuickBooks sucks as much as I think it does, it wouldn't just be Free Software people who'd want to switch once they saw it worked.
Am I barking up entirely the wrong tree here ?
Posted Jan 14, 2009 0:24 UTC (Wed)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
[Link] (3 responses)
Perhaps someone could persuade the FSF that investing in tools that would allow small businesses to go 100% free software would be a good idea. They tend to take the unglamorous bits when no one else will.
Posted Jan 14, 2009 2:09 UTC (Wed)
by dlang (guest, #313)
[Link]
it's that free software tools don't _try_ to comply with the law (again, in most cases), they don't break the laws, they just don't provide these features.
Posted Jan 15, 2009 3:37 UTC (Thu)
by ncm (guest, #165)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 15, 2009 23:10 UTC (Thu)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link]
Yes, the article is a little confusing in that it gives as one reason LWN can't use free accounting software that LWN wants a separate accountant to figure LWN's taxes. The article gives as another reason that LWN couldn't print tax forms with the free software. Seems to me, that's not an issue if LWN uses a separate accountant, so I don't know why the article brings it up.
I once tried to hire a professional tax accountant for a business, but he did business only with clients who used Quickbooks, and the business had a custom bookkeeping system that integrated with several other business systems.
I thought it was strange for him to limit his business (remember, we never got to discussing price), but he said there was a shortage of accountants (i.e. surplus of Quickbooks-based clients) in the world at that time, which made it impossible for an accountant to profitably do anything else.
I presume that shortage eventually resolved itself, which means it's conceivable that a few accountants in a place such as California could achieve an equivalent economy of scale working with free software clients.
Posted Jan 14, 2009 1:59 UTC (Wed)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 14, 2009 4:51 UTC (Wed)
by k8to (guest, #15413)
[Link]
Posted Jan 14, 2009 4:52 UTC (Wed)
by mcopple (subscriber, #2920)
[Link] (4 responses)
When I was treasurer of a small church, I used this proprietary software to build my 1099's and my W-2's. I printed a report off of Quickbooks and used that to fill in the boxes in the software, loaded the forms into my laser printer, and printed.
Therefore, all we really need to do is figure out what items need to go into each checkbox, and how to print those items in the appropriate spot on the form, using our own free software instead of the proprietary utility sold with the forms. No one needs to design a fully-functioning, printable 1099; they only need to design a template that can print the data on a pre-printed 1099 form. That is much easier than designing a form from scratch.
Posted Jan 14, 2009 5:47 UTC (Wed)
by thyrsus (guest, #21004)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 15, 2009 2:23 UTC (Thu)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link]
1) Country Level Forms (US, Canada, UK, etc).
While the forms do not change a lot, there are constant changes in what new forms and parts must be counted or may not be counted per area. And then you get into cross filing. A person works for you in a state. You may need to collect sales tax from every sale in that state because you have a point of presense in that state (while in another state you might not).
Or the fact that if you provide a cell-phone to an employee that is considered a taxable benefit which requires you to add that to certain forms and not others.
Posted Jan 14, 2009 17:06 UTC (Wed)
by cry_regarder (subscriber, #50545)
[Link] (1 responses)
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1217472&...
With automatic PDF tag extraction and PDF form filling combined with the OTS logic, I think the tools are in place now to attack the tax form problem.
Cry
Posted Jan 14, 2009 21:45 UTC (Wed)
by adamgundy (subscriber, #5418)
[Link]
Posted Jan 14, 2009 11:22 UTC (Wed)
by yodermk (subscriber, #3803)
[Link]
Not too elegant, but if you only have a few (say, less than 20 or 30), it's not the end of the world to do it that way.
Heck, I've done entire 1040s + several schedules with pen and paper for 3 or 4 of the last 10 years.
Posted Jan 14, 2009 12:53 UTC (Wed)
by nhippi (subscriber, #34640)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 14, 2009 13:24 UTC (Wed)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link]
The end result of all that is that online didn't seem like the way to go.
Posted Jan 15, 2009 15:11 UTC (Thu)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (2 responses)
We use Ledger-SMB, a fork of SQL-Ledger. It's basically terrible software, but it comes the closest to doing what we need.
Unfortunately, today I tried to update an invoice. I got an SQL error and the invoice disappeared from the system! Needless to say,
an accounting system that eats entries does not inspire confidence. :-(
Posted Jan 15, 2009 16:39 UTC (Thu)
by hippy (subscriber, #1488)
[Link] (1 responses)
May be there needs to be lobbying for electronic submission rather than printing stuff on dead trees.
Some tax filing in the UK can now be done electronically. FileThyme (http://www.paythyme.com/) from the guys as Clockwork Software can submit these and it is GPL.
Richard
Posted Jan 15, 2009 23:25 UTC (Thu)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link]
Most income tax filing in the US is electronic now, and I'm sure the number of cases that can be filed electronically grows every year. LWN-size businesses are some years off.
What is missing is the ability for a taxpayer to file electronically directly with the tax collector. Instead, the tax collector certifies, at great expense, a few tax preparers to file electronically on behalf of taxpayers. Those preparers in turn accept electronic submissions of various kinds from taxpayers.
Posted Jan 15, 2009 23:40 UTC (Thu)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link] (2 responses)
Bah. The citizen should send all the data to the government and the government should send the citizen a bill. The citizen can appeal if he doesn't think the bill is right, but as long as he pays at least what he was billed (and submitted honest data), he can't be penalized.
In fact, in the case of personal income tax, the US government has been poised to do that for a couple of decades, and I can't understand what's taking so long. In 1985, the head of the US income tax agency testified before Congress that in 90% of all cases, the agency already knows how much tax the taxpayer owes when it gets the filing (because of information filed by third parties). He said he hoped to implement a billing system in the next few years. The taxpayer would get a complete copy of his tax filing, as seen by the government, and he could either send a check or file one of his own instead. I don't know what happened.
As it stands, the government forces millions of people to expend the time, money, and stress of figuring their taxes, then looks over the figures for about a millisecond and says, "that's right." I have personally been highly irritated to have the opposite happen: I get a letter back from the tax collector saying, "Nope. What you really owe is X." They were right, of course. I guess I should be glad they disclosed the number X instead of just telling me the general location of my error and having me try again.
Posted Jan 19, 2009 14:56 UTC (Mon)
by TRS-80 (guest, #1804)
[Link]
Posted Jan 25, 2009 20:03 UTC (Sun)
by dkite (guest, #4577)
[Link]
Derek
Posted Jan 18, 2009 9:22 UTC (Sun)
by i3839 (guest, #31386)
[Link] (4 responses)
As for the interface to the accountant, do you need one? An accountant I mean? Why not have no accountant, surely it costs a lot money for little gain?
Posted Jan 23, 2009 13:58 UTC (Fri)
by markhb (guest, #1003)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Jan 24, 2009 1:17 UTC (Sat)
by i3839 (guest, #31386)
[Link] (2 responses)
I can understand that to avoid the paperwork hassle people just let some specialised company do their paperwork, but only to save time, not out of necessity.
I don't run a bussiness, but isn't it basically just keeping track of who, how much, when, and what for you pay money to someone, as well as keeping track of where your income comes from? It gets more complicated when you hire people, with all the taxes and stuff, but in LWN's case I suppose the people contributing are considered freelancers and aren't on the payroll, then it's just a fee for a service. Or am I totally wrong?
Posted Jan 25, 2009 20:15 UTC (Sun)
by dkite (guest, #4577)
[Link] (1 responses)
Heh. I'm not sure of LWN's legal status, but if you are incorporated,
The reporting requirements on small businesses are immense. We, a three
And if you get it wrong, late or flag worthy, you will rue the day.
And no one understands how it should be done, even the people who wrote the
Derek
Posted Jan 30, 2009 10:24 UTC (Fri)
by i3839 (guest, #31386)
[Link]
Posted Jan 24, 2009 16:30 UTC (Sat)
by zotz (guest, #26117)
[Link]
Fund the development of Free Software to the benefit of their members.
drew
Posted Feb 6, 2009 19:45 UTC (Fri)
by walterbyrd (guest, #11620)
[Link]
Also, will GnuCash export to QuickBook format that would be acceptable to an accountant?
Have you looked at webERP - a PHP/MySQL package that is GPL-licensed and production stable?
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
file formats
You misunderstood. Importing data from banks is relatively easily done; tools like GnuCash (and many others) handle it nicely. They do a better job of it than QuickBooks does. But those are not the formats expected by the tax preparation tools used by professional accountants. That is where the problem lies. It's an export problem, not an import problem.
file formats
file formats
file formats
I would have thought that that software would be able to read the quicken files
So start a project!
Jon, I feel your pain. Account software universally sucks, AFAICT. I spent many hours in December fighting with Quickbooks and AgExpert Analyst. These are both expensive, commercial packages. First, the import/export capabilities are essentially non-existent. Second, they often make what should be simple operations impossible or near-impossible.
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
1099
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
I asked the author of this software for his comment on the article. Aparantly he was not able to login.
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
One that I'm keeping my eye on is FiveDash. It is GPL 3, looks like it is being actively developed, and is currently at version 0.8. It is Australian based (which suits me since I'm also in Australia) but may need some tweaking for other countries. However, it is written in Python so said tweaking should not be too difficult.
New kid on the block
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
Go back and read the article again, focusing on the section about the very specific, finicky legal requirements for government tax forms. Where the existing free software tools aren't able to comply with the law, something else needs to be used. Trying to bludgeon accountants into accepting the free formats would address the accountant interface problem (though why not support the data formats they are used to?), but it doesn't solve the tax-form problem.
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
One solves the other
One solves the other
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
(N+1)^N Forms for Small Business.
2) State Forms
3) County/City Forms
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
the sourceforge thread eventually leads to this:
http://www.myown1.com/linux/pdf_formfill.shtml
which is a nice description of how to use pdftk to fill in the fields on a 1040.
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
Pen and paper?
Online accounting?
I actually looked into online accounting offerings as a possible solution. QuickBooks has an online version, for example. There are, though, some problems with that approach:
Online accounting?
I am very grumpy right now
I am very grumpy right now
Electronic tax filing instead of software to print forms
May be there needs to be lobbying for electronic submission rather than printing stuff on dead trees.
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
Your editor believes that it would be entirely reasonable to require governments to provide free software which interprets its tax codes for ordinary citizens, along with a guarantee that, as long as said citizens fed honest numbers to the system, they would not be subject to penalties if the resulting tax calculation were incorrect.
In Australia the tax office provides a gratis Win32 application for individuals, and this year introduced pre-filling from third-party data. It was remarkably painless, apart from having to boot my laptop into Windows, as the pre-filling didn't work under Wine. They also guarantee against penalties in case of errors in the software, which is something they do for the paper form as well.
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
Tax form printing: Can't you just use LaTeX..?
Trust me, the cost of paying an accountant is worth it relative to the cost of incorrectly filing with the IRS. Not to mention that you really don't want to foul up the filing of your contributors' tax documents; that's a good way to lose high-quality content fast. I've heard that in here the US the majority of individual returns go through a paid tax preparer now.
Tax form printing: Can't you just use LaTeX..?
Tax form printing: Can't you just use LaTeX..?
Tax form printing: Can't you just use LaTeX..?
limited, or whatever it's called in your jurisdiction, you probably have to
have an accountant to do your tax returns.
person outfit have two levels of value added taxes, payroll taxes,
subcontractor reports along with all the usual income tax at the end of the
year. Perversely the availability of software to automate most of it
encourages agencies to complicate matters even more.
legislation and the agencies who administer them. It is very useful
insurance to have a reputable accountant's stamp on documents that they
see.
Tax form printing: Can't you just use LaTeX..?
The exceedingly grumpy editor's accounting system update
Will GnuCash export to format acceptable by TurboTax or TaxCut?