OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
Posted Oct 16, 2008 10:59 UTC (Thu) by epa (subscriber, #39769)In reply to: OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges by nim-nim
Parent article: OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
Sun has been pretty clear about its support for openjdk. MS has not on mono.But since when did it require a company to be 'clear' about its 'support' for any free software project? Did the Unix copyright holders express support for the GNU project? Indeed, even if some company that has a tangential relation to the code is actively hostile, we still confidently assert that independent implementations are free software and can be used and shared freely. Are the same people who fiercely defended Linux against Caldera-SCO FUD and vague 'intellectual property' accusations now actively making those same accusations against Mono, with about as much basis in fact?
As I understand it, Microsoft has promised not to assert software patents against the core standardized part of .NET / Mono. (And they have a cross-licensing deal with Sun, just as with Novell, so Java is pretty safe too.) But really, if you are worried about patents, it's not so much Microsoft you should be afraid of as a random patent troll outfit that doesn't have ceasefire agreements in place and has nothing to lose.
In general I don't like the idea of pre-emptively cringing in the face of some self-generated FUD. If anyone believes there is a legal minefield, let him come out and state concretely what the problem is, so it can be worked around. This is just the same as ignoring the 'two hundred patents' or whatever nonsense it was that the Linux kernel is supposed to implement.
Posted Oct 16, 2008 11:55 UTC (Thu)
by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454)
[Link] (5 responses)
> But since when did it require a company to be 'clear' about its 'support' for any free software project?
Since software patents arrived on the market
> Indeed, even if some company that has a tangential relation to the code is
That's not how patent law works
> As I understand it, Microsoft has promised not to assert software patents
You understand wrong. MS has made some vague statements that only convinced parters which already had a financial relationship with it, and anyway "core standardized part" is a trap when most .Net projects do not check if they're within the "core standardized part" perimeter.
> If anyone believes there is a legal minefield, let him come out and
The problems have been stated and Novell's solutions have not convinced (which is a fact anyone can check by looking at whi ships mono or go-oo, so don't bother arguing against it)
Posted Oct 16, 2008 12:28 UTC (Thu)
by epa (subscriber, #39769)
[Link] (4 responses)
However, if you do not trust Microsoft not to assert software patents against Mono, you should not use Java either, since many patents will surely cover both. Nor should you use Linux, which is known to implement hundreds of software patents held by Microsoft and others.
Posted Oct 16, 2008 13:32 UTC (Thu)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (2 responses)
Nor should you use Linux, which is known to implement hundreds of
software patents held by Microsoft and others.
s/known/alleged by some/
It may well be the case that Linux (the kernel?) infringes one software
patent or another. Given the number of crap software patents around, it
may even be likely. But so far nobody has deigned to point out
even one single specific software patent that Linux is
infringing. Which does make one wonder whether this is not just empty
sabre-rattling.
Posted Oct 16, 2008 14:52 UTC (Thu)
by epa (subscriber, #39769)
[Link] (1 responses)
This kind of punditry is always light on details. We've grown used to this. Mono was criticized way before Novell acquired Ximian. There is an animosity toward "anything Microsoft," and it lowers the level of discourse that you can have.
I wish people focused on what the actual problems are. I am certainly against software patents. It is not only Microsoft that owns software patents, but hundreds of companies. But, I think Mono is singled out, and people give a free pass to lots of other projects.
Posted Oct 16, 2008 15:38 UTC (Thu)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link]
The big difference may be that while you can exist in perfect comfort
on a Linux system without using Mono at all, you can't very well do that
without
the Linux kernel. While possible patent infringement in the Linux kernel
is a necessary evil, using Mono just means avoidable exposure. When you
are a developer it means basing your code on something that might
possibly
go away at any time, when perfectly workable alternatives exist that do
not carry the same risk at all.
Also, these days, attacking the Linux kernel over a
software patent essentially means attacking IBM. The one thing you do not
want to do in the software patents world is attack IBM, so Linux seems to
be reasonably safe. In comparison, Novell is pretty much a non-entity.
Personally I have decided that for me, Mono isn't worth the trouble.
There is literally nothing written in Mono today that I think is worth
having, and I do not find it compelling as a development environment
compared to other free alternatives, so until that changes Mono stays off
my machine. For the record,
I also try to avoid Java stuff wherever I can.
Posted Oct 16, 2008 22:36 UTC (Thu)
by ceplm (subscriber, #41334)
[Link]
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
> actively hostile, we still confidently assert that independent
> implementations are free software and can be used and shared freely.
> against the core standardized part of .NET / Mono.
> state concretely what the problem is, so it can be worked around.
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
Indeed, any nobody has pointed out any single software patent which Mono is infringing. They should be treated the same.
Miguel de Icaza gave his view on this issue:
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
The position of the Mono project has always been that we believe .Net includes a lot of innovation along with a good mix of well-known technology. So, if people found a patent infringement, we would take it out. If there's prior art, though, the patent is invalid. This is the way it is done in the open source world. A good example is Freetype. They discovered that they could not use a byte code interpreter for fonts, so they invented a different approach.
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges
OpenOffice.org releases 3.0, faces new challenges