Quotes of the week

My concern is that many people are insufficiently able to distinguish between his insults and rants and the person himself. A lot of people, some of them right here, are quite happy to write off anyone whose behaviour is divergent from majority standards as worthless or worse, regardless of their abilities and contributions.

Theo is a case in point. There's anecdotal evidence to suggest that he has an ASD. My own personal suspicion is that either he lacks the insight to realise, or he hasn't reconciled himself to the fact, that by definition he isn't a "reasonable person", as society sees that - that what he sees as a normal form of communication will likely alienate anyone who doesn't, and a few of us who do (myself included; I can be a thoroughgoing arse, and whilst I try to suppress that side of me unless I trip over someone are being arses themselves, I know even that is never helpful). If his manner is a direct consequence of his neurological makeup, how on earth is sending him to Coventry or turning him into a figure of ridicule going to help? And then there's the very awkward fact of his contribution to the free software landscape; it can't be dismissed that without Theo's nature we'd never have had Theo's contributions. The same could be said of Dan Bernstein, for example, or Richard Stallman; it could also be extended outwards, to pretty much anyone whose mind somehow managed to develop without the ability to compromise.

As for newbies, are they really going to turn away in droves because Theo's an arsehole? But they might turn away in droves when they realise that the vast majority of people out there are utterly incapable of distinguishing between the person and the work, that if they do stand on a point of principle, and especially if they make what turns out later to be a mistaken stand, nobody will ever let them forget it or take them seriously again. Frankly, it's what keeps me from contributing. I could live with Theo going off at me. I don't think I could cope with being Theo.

I've observed in the past that one of the reasons I dislike contributing to online discussions these days is that I can't stand the way people treat each other. Strange as it may seem to you or anyone else, I'm not thinking of Theo or people like him when I say that.

> alienate... a few of us who do, myself included

> I could live with Theo going off at me

Meh. I am large, I contain multitudes. And not a single proofreader among us.

i.e., Theo is sufficiently consistent that it's plausible that he has no 
choice in acting the way he does?

Of course, the question is to what degree we should take that into 
account. You have to expect *some* degree of understanding of the other 
party's position in any conversation or the interaction just won't work. 
(And I say this as someone who is constantly fighting an internal battle 
which if lost would lead to me being *more* annoying and unpleasant than 
Theo, but without the productivity to make up for it...)

"many people are insufficiently able to distinguish between his insults and rants and the
person himself."

So ... the solution is to avoid saying "Theo, you're full of shit"? If we're going to make
standards for people to stand up to, I expect that everyone should have to stand up to these
standards.

"If they do stand on a point of principle, and especially if they make what turns out later to
be a mistaken stand, nobody will ever let them forget it or take them seriously again."

I don't see anyone doing that. In fact, I find that a total non sequitur. Theo doesn't have
problems because of his principles; he has problems because he's a dick.

Even if he is unable to change, responding negatively to his rudeness may discourage people
who do have the capacity to choose between personal attacks and reasonable communication.

Yes, in fact, newbies are being driven away. For one example, most women aren't brought up to
work in highly aggressive environments, and won't volunteer for projects where their work is
going to get rude, hostile comments, much less personal attacks.

> Theo doesn't have problems because of his principles; he has problems because he's a dick.

I think this discussion just swallowed its own tail.

I fail completely to understand your standards for communication, but I perceive them as
applying differently to Theo de Raadt and the rest of the world.

... er ...

?