For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Oct 26, 2007 2:04 UTC (Fri) by verbovet (guest, #46457)
In reply to: It's just true, that's all... by khim
Parent article: New Desktop Face-Off: Gnome 2.20 vs KDE 3.5 (O'ReillyNet)

To see the difference, you may press 2+2*2 on the KCalc and on the 
standard Windows XP calculator :-)

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Oct 26, 2007 5:31 UTC (Fri) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link] (9 responses)

it's even faster to let the minicli do your sums for you, I find.

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Oct 26, 2007 13:57 UTC (Fri) by dcoutts (guest, #5387) [Link] (8 responses)

The point is that XP's calc gives you 8 since it does (2+2)*2 where as the KDE and GNOME
calc's give you 2+2*2 = 6.

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Oct 26, 2007 15:05 UTC (Fri) by verbovet (guest, #46457) [Link] (3 responses)

Yes, exactly!

Even more, the XP's Calc depends on how it looks like: after change 
the "View" to "Scientific", it change the way of computing and gives 6.

100% logical, yes

Posted Oct 26, 2007 16:51 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (2 responses)

Both Windows Calc and KCalc are imitating "real" hardware calculators. And you ever tried simple hardware calculator without parenthesises you should know it'll return 8 after you press "2", "+", "2", "*", "2", "=" while "advanced" scientific model (or pretty much any model with parenthesises) will return 6. This is how Windows Calc, KCalc and gnome-calculator are doing it. No problems. But when you trye to use functions you'll find that there are two classes: most hardware calculators, Windows Calc and KCalc belong to first class and few rare hardware calculators and gnome-calculator belong to the second class.

If you ever seen how real users (mostly accountants) are using calculators you'll see simple pattern: "1", "+", "5", "%", "=", "M+", "3", "+", "8", ".", "5", "%", "=", "M+", "MR". This is how things were done for last 20 years. So it's how things must be done. If the program does not work this way - it's not a calculator. It's a toy. That's why Windows Calculator and KCalc are usable (but not perfect - hardware calculator with big buttons are preferred anyway) while gnome-calculator... ugh... it's not really a calculator...

I don't know why GNOME guys tried to reinvent the calculator but the thing they produced is mostly useles: you can not use it without reading manual - and even then it's painful...

100% logical, yes

Posted Oct 26, 2007 17:38 UTC (Fri) by verbovet (guest, #46457) [Link] (1 responses)

> Both Windows Calc and KCalc are imitating "real" hardware calculators. 
> And you ever tried simple hardware calculator without parenthesises you 
> should know it'll return 8 after you press "2", "+", "2", "*", "2", "="

I failed to find what I should do with KCalc to force it to compute 2+2*2 
in a non-scientific way (to get 8).  It always gives 6.  And this is not 
related to parenthesises (no parenthesises in '2+2*2'!). 2+2*2=6 in math, 
science (and linux :-).

Have you managed to removed buttons with parenthesises from screen ?

Posted Oct 26, 2007 17:47 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

This is not related to parenthesises

This is. This rule is from 1960th: simple calculators don't have parenthesises on keyboard and don't support operator precedence. Complex ones do have parenthesises on keyboard and do support operator precedence. If you'll think few seconds you'll understood why (hint: stack). Windows calculator have support for both modes, KDE's one is more limited in this regard (but more advanced in some other regards) and supports just one (more sophisticated one), but that's Ok since it does not have mode without parenthesises as well. Some people can grumple about it, but none will be confused. gnome-calculator is just mostly useless...

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Oct 26, 2007 17:55 UTC (Fri) by vmole (guest, #111) [Link] (3 responses)

Feh. Everyone knows the proper way to calculate this is 2, Enter, Enter, *, +.

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Nov 1, 2007 16:05 UTC (Thu) by randy (guest, #1510) [Link] (2 responses)

Exactly! "xcalc -rpn"

Besides xcalc, do any other calculators have an rpn mode?

My main calculator is my 20 year old HP15C. :)

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Nov 1, 2007 17:35 UTC (Thu) by vmole (guest, #111) [Link]

There's lots. Calcoo, grpn, orpie, rpncalc show up in a quick "apt-get search rpn"; I keep calcoo installed. Emacs calc does rpn. I'm sure there are others.

For example KCalc looks and works like Windows Calc

Posted Nov 7, 2007 17:50 UTC (Wed) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]

When I want rpn, I use "dc".

But usually I use bc -l.

What difference ?

Posted Oct 26, 2007 16:30 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

Windows calc: 2+2*2=6; KCalc: 2+2*2=6. This is if you have parenthesises in Windows calc (scientific mode). But try to press "1", "Inv", "Sin" in gnome-calculator !