Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
Nokia researcher Jamey Hicks recently proposed a Open Source Hardware License (OSHL) for approval by the Open Source Initiative (OSI). Is there a need for a hardware-specific license? If so, what makes hardware different from software?"
Posted Aug 1, 2007 2:08 UTC (Wed)
by stumbles (guest, #8796)
[Link] (3 responses)
Frankly, the first ones to make such a thing for a video card that has some really good horsepower in the 2D realm but especially in the 3D realm, I for one will be the first to buy one.
On the motherboard front, I would love to see someone do the same and use the LinuxBIOS. But then if the existing mobo manufacturers were to use LinuxBIOS that would be an equally good thing.
In the end if such things truly existed, it is where my money would go.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 13:29 UTC (Wed)
by pflugstad (subscriber, #224)
[Link] (1 responses)
<http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php>
right?
Posted Aug 1, 2007 14:00 UTC (Wed)
by stumbles (guest, #8796)
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Posted Aug 1, 2007 18:57 UTC (Wed)
by jd (guest, #26381)
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As for scaring hardware vendors - they're beginning to get in on the game themselves. Sun, for example. Most (I'd say 400 of the original 500) of IBM's patents that were Open Sourced are hardware patents, not software. It might make Intel and AMD nervous, but really there's nobody else who would particularly care.
Most of the money comes from chips that Open Source developers would be unlikely to compete with for decades. We're talking 8-channel 26-bit 10 megahertz ADCs, rad-hardened memory, 160 gigabit/second network chips, etc. Sorry, but Joe Hacker is unlikely to have the ability to compete in that market right now. Some day, yes, but not today.
PCI Express 2.1 controllers and switches? Sure. I don't see that being a problem. DMA and MMU chips? Yeah, yeah. 100 megabit ethernet controllers? I could see that becoming a high-school project, with extra marks if you can support V+RNIC extensions. Intelligent on-disk controllers? You might need a soldering iron to replace the old one, but that's the hard part.
These are all things that companies barely make any profit on at all, these days, and possibly have to sell at a loss in some cases. Open sourcing wouldn't hurt, it might even boost their profit margins.
Have you browsed the summaries on Freshmeat with regards LinuxBIOS? Do so and think about what is supported right now. Then tell me why anyone should care if it's provided or not, beyond ease-of-use.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 3:11 UTC (Wed)
by stevenj (guest, #421)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Aug 1, 2007 5:37 UTC (Wed)
by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
[Link] (1 responses)
And since you can synthesize it for an FPGA, given appropriate tools, and then you can copy those bits to any FPGA, the marginal cost is dirt-cheap; if you have a reconfigurable FPGA fabric the marginal cost might really be zero.
Of course, an FPGA implementation won't be competitive with a custom-fabricated chip.
Now, there are problems with using the GPL if you want to take Sun's Verilog code and combine the Sparc core with peripherals that might be licensed differently: some of the issues are fuzzy. But if you just want to build one and play with it, or use it to test out an EDA tool, it's fine.
Posted Aug 4, 2007 20:55 UTC (Sat)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
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Yes, Star Trek replicator technology isn't all that special. It is just a cheap manufacturing method. We already have manufacturing levels of various degrees of cheapness, and the cheaper the manufacturing is, the more significant the cost of the blueprints is.
Star Trek technology does, though, help us to see that the deeply held belief that hardware and software are fundamentally different is wrong. Pretty much the only relevant difference is the cost of transporting it. Star Trek manages to neutralize that distinction by eliminating most transportation of matter.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 5:44 UTC (Wed)
by gnu (guest, #65)
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Posted Aug 1, 2007 7:35 UTC (Wed)
by chel (guest, #11544)
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Although there are major differences, open specifications could be very useful. You see a number of processor vendors implementing about the same processor specification. In other area's, e.g. graphics processors, you see a lack on open specifications, resulting in hardware supplied with only drivers for one specific OS. Often even access to the circuit specifications is not available.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 18:41 UTC (Wed)
by jd (guest, #26381)
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Posted Aug 1, 2007 23:18 UTC (Wed)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
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No, but you can take a Sparc, modify a few lines of code, and generate a new Sparc: http://www.opensparc.net
The distinction between hardware and software is actually really blurry.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 8:20 UTC (Wed)
by dag- (guest, #30207)
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So that if you buy a piece of hardware, you know that the hardware *can* be driven by Open Source drivers if it contains the "Open Hardware" stamp.
It is frustrating to go to a shop to write down what hardware they have available, to go back home to look up whether the hardware in fact will work properly, then go back to the shop and buy the hardware, only to come home and find out the second revision suddenly uses a different chipset that does not work. Then bring back the hardware and try another piece or switch shop and do it all over again.
If you want to enlighten customers, they have to know what to look for in the shop without being a technology expert.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 8:48 UTC (Wed)
by PO8 (guest, #41661)
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My students at Portland State University also produce open hardware in the form of schematics and PCB layouts for circuits. As I understand the law, while the schematics and PCB layouts themselves are protected by copyright, hardware produced from them is not. We've been slapping the GPL on them anyway, but it probably has little legal force.
True hardware, i.e. devices, is typically protected by patent and trademark. The clever trick that makes the GPL work thus is difficult to apply to them.
Posted Aug 1, 2007 13:50 UTC (Wed)
by dwheeler (guest, #1216)
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Posted Aug 1, 2007 21:31 UTC (Wed)
by filker0 (guest, #31278)
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A hardware design (video board, disk controller, A-D/D-A, motor controller, etc.) could be described in terms of its design and interface. Depending on the level of design, a reference implementation might be an FPGA that implements the design, or a circuit composed of many parts (board level or subsystem level). An open HW design may contain non-open parts (such as memory, CPU, op-amps, etc.), but the design itself could be used, modified, and returned to the community, assuming that the parts were off-the-shelf.
A commercial venture might take an open design, implement it as an ASIC or incorporate it in a larger product. The Open license should require that any changes to the open parts of these products remain open, and that changes within the design also be open, but like the LGPL, should not require that those portions of the end product that are not directly based on the part. Actual ASIC "code" or templates would not need to be released, but anyone else with sufficient resources could implement the same design without fear of infringing.
This would give designers a set of Open Source building blocks from various sources that could be assembled during the design phase to solve a particular problem. Details such as what constitutes a derived design need to be explicitly stated in the license. A BSD style attribution clause stating that you always have to give credit where it's due even if the overall product design is not open source is not a bad idea.
This is separate from a certification of Open Source Compatible Hardware, which would require an organization such as OSI to certify that a manufacturer provide sufficient documentation for a product to write a driver that takes advantage of all of its features, and that the documentation is available on a non-restricted basis that allows a Free and Open driver implementation. In this case, the hardware itself need not be "Open Source", just available to it.
Posted Aug 2, 2007 9:05 UTC (Thu)
by ekj (guest, #1524)
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I think we actually need not one certification for Open Hardware, but *2*. First, we need a certification for hardware that is, by itself, open. Where you get the sourcecode for the actual hardware, and have the 4 classical freedoms to tinker, improve, make derived products, etc. We won't have much hardware under such a certificate anytime soon. Second, and perhaps more important, we need a certification that says: "The API for this piece of hardware is completely open. We publish complete documentation as to how to talk to the device." I think the second matters more than the first at the moment, and it's much more realistic -- a lot of devices conform already, by virtue of communicating over an already open, well-defined protocol. All IDE-devices lacking proprietary "extensions" to the IDE-command-set, All devices correctly implementing "Usb-storage", all web-cameras correctly implementing "usb-pointer" and so on. It would be very nice to be able to see at a glance in the store which ones of the available web-cameras (for example) are open, in the sense that docs on how to talk to them are available, and which ones use proprietary crap.
I don't know that we need it. Well actually I think we do... if anything to scare the bajebbies out of the proprietary folks. Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
You know about:Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
Aware yes. Though I don't think they have anything but an embedded device available. Correct me if I'm wrong.Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
OpenSPARC and the ESA's clone of the old Sparc were both GPLed. OpenCores has a mix of GPL, BSD and other Open Source licenses. I don't see the problem with what we have - although I think it could be worded better to include hardware logic and not just software logic.
Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
This will be an important issue when we get replicator technology enabling us to fabricate hardware with zero marginal cost, just like software.
Making the GPL Enterprise-ready (not just enterprise-ready)
See opensparc.net.
Sun released the HDL for the Sparc under the GPL
Sun released the HDL for the Sparc under the GPL
TAPR OHL is being used in afew hardware projects already, prominently by the HPSDR project.There is already one
A major difference is production. To make chips you need a huge investment. Investsments in chip technology are even bigger. You can take Linux, modify a few statements and generate a new Linux, you can't take an Athlon, modify a few circuits and generate a new Athlon.What makes hardware different from software?
...and Seas of Gates and other programmable devices have existed for a long time. I don't see the problem.FPGAs
> you can't take an Athlon, modify a few circuits and generate a new Athlon.What makes hardware different from software?
I think we need an Open Hardware Trademark. A certification body that can put an approval stamp when hardware is sufficiently documented and open.Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
RTL descriptions of digital logic and the like are copyrightable. As I understand the law (IANAL), probably even the arrangement of gates on an FPGA is a copyrighted derivative work of the description. For copyrightable things, existing open-source licenses seem to work fine.Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)
It's all quite complicated. As open hardware grows, there will be some sorting out to be done.
Check out RepRap, a 3D printer that can now make many of its own parts, and it's remarkably inexpensive.
"What We... the RepRap team, are trying to do is to develop and give away the designs for a much cheaper (material costs will be about £300) setup with the novel capability of being able to make itself - so you can give one to a friend for Christmas."
RepRap
Yes, an open hardware license would be a very good thing to have available.Open Hardware
Do we need an open hardware license? (Linux.com)