Linus was always bitchy...

Posted Sep 27, 2006 0:52 UTC (Wed) by RMetz (guest, #27939)
In reply to: Linus was always bitchy... by mingo
Parent article: Why Torvalds is sitting out the GPLv3 process (Linux.com)

"(***) _I_, for one, think that if some hardware maker (TiVo) wants to sell me a hardware product in which _MY_ code is used in such a manner that _I_ can't hack it, it would piss me off. YMMV."

you might also be upset if it's used in weapons, or if it's used on porn sites, or if it's used by an islamic organization.

I, respectfully, don't think that's an apt metaphor. The objection to weapons use, in the context of Tivo's usage, would be more along the lines of "I object to Tivo using my code because TV leads to people reading fewer books."

I think objecting to someone selling you a device running code you wrote and not letting you modify it in a useful manner is very different from objecting to someone using your code for a purpose you don't like. The first case is about not having significant access to your code; in the second case you have meaningful access but have a problem with their usage of your code. As you've explained, the GPL doesn't let you choose what people can do with your code, but it _does_ ensure that you'll have meaningful access to the code if they sell/distribute it back to you. Seems to me that this new clause proctects this right in the case of a Tivo-like device and it's an important right to protect.

As for the weapons, I suppose they could always tape CDs with the sourcecode on them to their warheads in order comply. ;)

Linus was always bitchy...

Posted Sep 28, 2006 2:37 UTC (Thu) by AJWM (guest, #15888) [Link] (1 responses)

> objecting to someone selling you a device running code you wrote and not letting you modify it in a useful manner

If you don't like the format they're selling it in, don't buy it. And in the TiVo case, you can do whatever the heck you like with the code, except to run it on hardware that won't support it -- which, in that case, includes the TiVo.

It's the hardware that's broken, not the software.

Personally I avoid broken hardware, and encourage my friends to.

Linus was always bitchy...

Posted Sep 28, 2006 3:48 UTC (Thu) by RMetz (guest, #27939) [Link]

But I'm allowed to buy it, and if I do the GPL is supposed to ensure that I have meaningful access to the code. AFAIK, you can only run TiVo's code on a TiVo, and if I can't run modified code on any device, AT ALL, then on a functional level I wouldn't say I've been allowed to modify it. At least, not in any sense that matters.

I think this violates the spirit of the GPL. But the GPLv2's language on this matter leaves the loophole open. The clause under discussion closes this loophole.

I'm actually still unsure about the GPLv3, but PJ over at Groklaw has done a lot to bring me over to its side. I'd suggest everyone go read what she has to say for an opinion based in an understanding of the law and legalese.