The real point

Posted May 16, 2006 11:12 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
In reply to: The real point by einstein
Parent article: GPL concerns halt Kororaa live CD (NewsForge)

So sorry, I've no patience left for political correctness. I want something that works, and nvidia delivers the goods.

Fine, until you try and install that nVidia driver on your AMD64 or, even worse, PowerPC machine. Do nVidia do a power version of their driver?

Cheers,
Wol

The real point

Posted May 16, 2006 16:53 UTC (Tue) by carcassonne (guest, #31569) [Link]

Fine, until you try and install that nVidia driver on your AMD64...

I run the nVidia driver on my MSI K8N Neo4 (Dual core AMD64) without any problems at all using a Ge6600 (or something that sounds like that) graphics card.

Simply do a YaST update and select the nVdia driver.

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 4:08 UTC (Wed) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] (6 responses)

Fine, until you try and install that nVidia driver on your AMD64 or, even worse, PowerPC machine. Do nVidia do a power version of their driver?

Actually nvidia's amd64 driver is current with their x86 driver, and their freebsd and solaris drivers are also current. Only the ia-64 drivers are lagging behind, but it's highly unlikely that linux on itanium users are using it on the desktop.

You are right about PPC though, and that's a problem. For reasons like that it's important to continue *in parallel* the efforts towards more open source drivers...

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 6:16 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link] (5 responses)

*in parallel*

In parallel? In parallel with ATI and nVidia's efforts to make us accept proprietary drivers? Or in parallel with our requests that they free up their code and save everyone some person-years of reverse engineering?

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 6:31 UTC (Wed) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] (4 responses)

"In parallel" meaning using the most suitable video drivers for ones needs, even if they are not libre, while *simultaneously* advocating open source drivers, and switching to them if they become viable. In my case, the intel 9xx drivers look promising, and if/when brought up to feature parity with nvidia they will be preferred - but until then I am using nvidia wherever fast, reliable OpenGL is required. Naturally that sort of thing is irrelevant in the server room, but on the desktop it's crucial.

So no, I'm not willing to retreat to the hobbyist realm and cede the desktop to some crappy monopolist until there are in-kernel video drivers of acceptable quality. I'm going to stay in the game with linux now, even if that means using non-libre video drivers.

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 9:49 UTC (Wed) by grouch (guest, #27289) [Link] (3 responses)

So no, I'm not willing to retreat to the hobbyist realm and cede the desktop to some crappy monopolist until there are in-kernel video drivers of acceptable quality. I'm going to stay in the game with linux now, even if that means using non-libre video drivers.

Would that be the hobbyist realm wherein so many MS Windows 3d games reside? I'm a little confused. How does your use of the closed video drivers for gaming video cards keep you from retreating to the hobbyist realm?

The corporate desktop is hampered by multiple factors, but these 3d video cards with closed drivers do not appear high on the list. Fear and inertia play a large role, especially in the U.S.

Home desktop adoption of GNU/Linux is hampered most by at least one of the factors at play in corporate desktop adoption, which is the preinstallation of MS Windows on almost every PC in every store in the U.S. (There appears to be a little effort to export this idea).

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 9:57 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link] (2 responses)

Actually, I find einstein's comment quite reasonable. Many hobbysts seem to be ok with keeping a copy of Windows around just to play games. Proprietary drivers allow people to play on Linux instead; from this perspective they look like a lesser evil.

I have given up gaming; it's too hard on Linux, and it takes too much time anyway. But it is just one of those strongholds left to Windows and hampering Linux adoption. It is relevant for many people.

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 18:58 UTC (Wed) by grouch (guest, #27289) [Link] (1 responses)

Actually, I find einstein's comment quite reasonable. Many hobbysts seem to be ok with keeping a copy of Windows around just to play games. Proprietary drivers allow people to play on Linux instead; from this perspective they look like a lesser evil.

That is what confuses me. If the hobbyist is most likely to need the extra functions in the closed drivers, how will abandoning those drivers to use only the libre drivers result in a "retreat to the hobbyist realm and cede the desktop"?

I have given up gaming; it's too hard on Linux, and it takes too much time anyway. But it is just one of those strongholds left to Windows and hampering Linux adoption. It is relevant for many people.

I agree with you with respect to time and relevancy. The others are not so clear. id Software games, in particular, are not hard to set up on Linux. Tuxgames handles commercial games and Happy Penguin features piles of free games from scrollers to 3d multiplayer.

The hampering comes more from the pre-installation of MS Windows, which provides gamers with a beginning platform and provides game vendors with market numbers. It's the chicken and egg syndrome.

The real point

Posted May 17, 2006 21:42 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

If the hobbyist is most likely to need the extra functions in the closed drivers, how will abandoning those drivers to use only the libre drivers result in a "retreat to the hobbyist realm and cede the desktop"?

Because said hobbyist will more likely defeat to legacy operating systems than stop playing GTA San Andreas. The strange ways of reality.

id Software games, in particular, are not hard to set up on Linux.

You know, games are more like movies. Having one or two, even ten, is hardly going to satisfy any enthusiast. They get excited with new releases, they visit specialist web sites and stores, they spend a lot of time and money on them. Even the casual player buys some titles from time to time; remember that games make more money than movies.