The Second GPLv3 Conference
The Second GPLv3 Conference
Posted Feb 22, 2006 21:03 UTC (Wed) by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688)In reply to: The Second GPLv3 Conference by drag
Parent article: The Second GPLv3 Conference
> Try using something remotely modern...
I do. I use WindowsXP as my desktop OS with open source Media Player Classic as my media player.
> Theora is Free software and frankly its not that hard to deal with if
> your using a decent Linux distro.
None of my linux boxes use GUIs. I'm not going to buy another machine and install a desktop Linux distro just to watch one video.
> And since we are dealing with FSF group and RMS asking them to distribute
> a video in mpeg-1 format when there are perfectly good free alternatives
> like Theora... You might as well tell them that you want it DRM encoded
> in WMV9 format.
WMV9 would be fine, as would WMV8, WMV6, QuickTime, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, or any number of other formats. I just want to view the video in my desktop OS of choice without having to deal with buggy Theora decoder implementations that are preventing me from viewing the video in its entirety. Making the video available in a variety of formats to accomodate the needs of the user should be a more important than using an obscure format because it's ideologically correct.
> No patent infringments, no licensing issues.
There are also no patent infringments or licensing issues with encoding and distributing in alternate formats such as WMV or QuickTime.
Posted Feb 22, 2006 23:16 UTC (Wed)
by xoddam (subscriber, #2322)
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Posted Feb 23, 2006 6:07 UTC (Thu)
by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688)
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No liberty has to be sacrificed to encode into a different format.
Posted Feb 23, 2006 6:50 UTC (Thu)
by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688)
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> The FSF chooses not to sacrifice essential liberty for a little
It's not just convenience. Putting the video into a more accessable format means that you don't lock out users that may not be able to play the video in its current form. Theora doesn't come installed on the most widely used desktop OS's. Users who may not be in a position to install software on their computers, such as those who use computers only at work, could still watch the video on their systems if it were available in a format they could play.
Making it available in MPEG-1 (a lowest common denominator) means that the video could easily be converted into a VideoCD. It could then be playable by those that do not have access to a computer or would prefer to watch it on their television via a DVD player.
No liberty has to be sacrificed to encode into a different format. Although there might be patents covering the creating of encoding software to formats such as WMV or even of the formats themselves, many of the tools are available at no charge to make the conversion. Some are even licensed under the GPL. For example, Windows Media Encoder is a free download from Microsoft's site. Tools such as TMPEGEnc can convert the video to MPEG-1 which could be put on a VideoCD for easier viewing on a DVD player. There are also open source solutions. One could use the GPL licensed VirtualDub along with the GPL licensed XviD MPEG-4 codec to encode the video to MPEG-4.
It's great that coriordan made a transcript available. It was excellent and suited my needs. But I feel that the FSF is biting off its nose to spite its face by not making an effort to be more accessable to new comers and other interested parties that might not be using an entirely free environment. I think they can easily include those people without compromising any principles.
[note that I'm not advocating abondoning Theora but instead making videos available in more than one format when they are released.]
Posted Feb 23, 2006 7:17 UTC (Thu)
by xoddam (subscriber, #2322)
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Posted Feb 23, 2006 8:52 UTC (Thu)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
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I think most of the formats you mention are patent-encumbered, and a
strict interpretation would conclude that some liberty is being given up
to use them. But IANAL, I have not researched the details of the patent
licences, and for all I know you're right.
In fact, i think all of them are encumbered, even MPEG-1.
For some reason patenting video and audio codecs has been the norm for
longer than with other software. Possibly because they often originate
in the traditional telecom and broadcasting worlds. The best one can
hope is the patents expire some day. The basic MPEG-1 spec is from 1993
(see
http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standards/mpeg-1/mpeg-1.htm)
so it just might be free in about 9 years time.
Or then not. Figuring
this out is hellishly difficult: One would have to hunt down all essential
patents related to the standard and find when they expire in
various part of the world. It is also likely that common encoding
technologies in use have patents applied for after the spec was published,
because the MPEG-1 spec just tells you the syntax and meaning of the data,
not what algorithms you use to generate it with.
This locking out free and open-source implementations of standards
is one of the best examples of why software patents truly are evil.
Posted Feb 24, 2006 7:22 UTC (Fri)
by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688)
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They are all patent-encumbered, including Theora.
Posted Feb 24, 2006 7:51 UTC (Fri)
by xoddam (subscriber, #2322)
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Posted Feb 25, 2006 15:10 UTC (Sat)
by sepreece (guest, #19270)
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Posted Feb 23, 2006 12:34 UTC (Thu)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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I am using Debian and every media player I tried can view this video flawlessly. Totem, Xine, VLC, Mplayer. All track, pause, rewind, play, fast forward with no issues.
Now if I can do that on my little Linux install and you can't do that with Microsoft media player in Windows... I think that your problem is that your using MS media player classic instead of it being FSF's problem with choosing to encode in Theora.
People that I've seen that use Windows tend to have better luck with VLC. http://www.videolan.org/ VLC is generally to have better codec support then MS Media Player, as well as itself being Free software. (just because your stuck using a closed source OS doesn't mean you can benifit from open source yourself)
As well as DirectShow filters (if you insist on avoiding VLC), you also have FFdshow filters, as well as plugin support for Realplayer.
And for Linux you don't need a GUI to watch a video...
mplayer -vo aa gplv3-draft1-release.ogg
Works over SSH even. ;-)
> Making the video available in a variety of formats to accommodate Is this the Free Software Foundation we're talking about?
> the needs of the user should be more important than using an
> obscure format because it's ideologically correct.
The FSF chooses not to sacrifice essential liberty for a little
temporary convenience. Not even the convenience of Windows users :-)
> The FSF chooses not to sacrifice essential liberty for a littleIs this the Free Software Foundation we're talking about?
> temporary convenience. Not even the convenience of Windows users
[sorry, I hit publish when I meant to preview]Is this the Free Software Foundation we're talking about?
> temporary convenience. Not even the convenience of Windows users
> No liberty has to be sacrificed to encode into a different format. Is this the Free Software Foundation we're talking about?
I think most of the formats you mention are patent-encumbered, and a
strict interpretation would conclude that some liberty is being given up
to use them. But IANAL, I have not researched the details of the patent
licences, and for all I know you're right.
Still, there is the question of what is being encouraged and endorsed.
No freedom would have been sacrificed to publish their essays in
Microsoft Office formats supported by free programs, nor to read .doc
attachments, but the FSF has never accepted correspondence in Word
format, because to do so acknowledges the dominance and endorses the use
of proprietary software.
If, by offering a Theora video, the FSF has boosted the user base of the
format and increased public awareness of Free Software innovation, it has
advanced the cause of freedom.
> I feel that the FSF is biting off its nose to spite its face by
> not making an effort to be more accessable to new comers and
> other interested parties that might not be using an entirely
> free environment.
Stallman has always been so accused of being inflexible. So far, it is
working.
> No liberty has to be sacrificed to encode into a different format.
The evil of codec patents
> I think most of the formats you mention are patent-encumberedIs this the Free Software Foundation we're talking about?
True. The developer of the codec on which Theora is (was originally?) Yes, but!
based owns patents on the techniques. But they have licenced them to all
users, for any purpose.
From the top of http://www.theora.org/svn.html :
"On2 represents and warrants that it shall not assert any rights relating
to infringement of On2's registered patents, nor initiate any litigation
asserting such rights, against any person who, or entity which utilizes
the On2 VP3 Codec Software, including any use, distribution, and sale of
said Software; which make changes, modifications, and improvements in
said Software; and to use, distribute, and sell said changes as well as
applications for other fields of use."
And, of course, one of those essential freedoms is presumably that someone other than the FSF could convert the video to other formats and make them available to people who don't have easy access to the free format. I think that's at least a little bit of the FSF's point, even if it's maybe not their favorite bit.Is this the Free Software Foundation we're talking about?
well I am sorry if I can off a bit harse... I didn't realy mean to sound quite like I did on that reply.The Second GPLv3 Conference