FOSS.IN: A report
FOSS.IN: A report
Posted Dec 9, 2005 18:51 UTC (Fri) by markc (guest, #4419)In reply to: FOSS.IN: A report by gnu
Parent article: FOSS.IN: A report
> It's a good thing if more companies start
> employing Free Software developers and also
> allow them to contribute to the community.
FWIW I have tried to engage 1 or 2 developers to help me (solo, not a
company) to complete projects in various stages of completion that are or
will become open source. As a reasonably well paid westerner I can afford
to pass on $4 USD per hour for part time, leading to possible full time,
employment for "the right" Indian FLOSS developer, if I can find one!!! I
was blown away by Jons' comments about the folks needing full guidance
because what I found is that it was going to take more of my time to
outline what I wanted done than than what it was worth in my time, plus
paying money, than any return on investment and contribution back from the
2 "workers" I have interacted with (I have less than zero management
experience). I mean, I could do the work I needed doing myself and
probably quicker, in most cases, if I detailed all the steps required by
the Indian hackers. If I was that organised I wouldn't need any help. Yes,
I was perplexed at the lack of direction when the offer was "there's 10
hours payment and the SVN checkout URL, now do whatever you want to do to
improve the code"... nuh, doesn't work like that... I would have to
provide very specific step by step guidelines for them to follow.
I thought I was dealing with individual personal traits but this article
indicates it's a national tendency. Now I know that I can adjust and allow
for it. Thanks Jon!
It has occurred to me that one way to overcome a few of the Indian
specific shortcomings outlined in both the article and the comments is if
some of us "westerners" could pool our financial resources and pay for
groups or "cells" of Indian FLOSS workers to co-work on specific project
targets. Ideally with enough pooled funds to pay for a room with an ADSL
connection and one full-time "manager" with a budget to pay for interested
FLOSS folks to show up and put in hacking time. I found paying upfront for
a $40 USD block of 10 hours was a good compromise between being fair to
the recipient, by giving them a reasonable chance to do a "micro job" and
prove themselves worthy enough to get a crack at the next 10 hour payment,
and, the payer (me so far) not risking too much money if the remote worker
just takes off with the payment never to be heard from again. Because of
the constrained resources in India (like bandwidth and computing power) it
does occur to me that some kind of pooling on both ends would help improve
the situation... for those of us wanting specific work done and for those
in India willing to do the work but held back by both a cultural trends
and available resources. 4 folks in the west contributing the value of 2
dozen beers per week would be full time employment for one Indian, and,
giving them the opportunity to be so working on FLOSS. 40 of us doing so
for 10 workers in the same village or area could possibly make a profound
difference to the whole community in that particular area as well as
seriously kick along various FLOSS projects that the rest of the world
benefits from, forever.
Posted Dec 10, 2005 17:04 UTC (Sat)
by gnu (guest, #65)
[Link] (2 responses)
Jon stayed in India for a week. With all due respect to Jon, you cannot generalize what probably is a trait for afew thousand developers and thrust it upon a whole nation. A lot of developers are in town contributing to many projects quitely. I know a afew very talented people sending bug reports, reproducing them and actually fixing them. These skills are very important too, not just conceiving and producing brand-new software.
Given the state of information infrastructure, I believe, those contributing to the projects small or large are doing a remarkable job. Until recently getting a reasonable DSL connection was very tough. Things are slowly changing. A lot of things needs change in future, a lot of these initiatives should come from the Govt. I strongly believe, things *will* change for good.
There are quite a lot of very talented developers I have seen here, most of them haven't been introduced to Free Software or are not interested for their own reasons. I do not believe that "Indians" as a whole need handholding to do everything. That's completely wrong generalization to make. I have seen bad american/european developers too who make more noise than signals. IMHO, it is wrong to classify talent based on region. We are going back in time to WWII timefreame if we do so.
The west should stop seeing Indian Software Industry through just Wipro and Infosys. There is a lot more happening here without publicity than what the West really know. It is sad to see Indians being tagged based on afew thousad people who attended a particular conference.
Posted Dec 11, 2005 6:44 UTC (Sun)
by achitnis (guest, #20)
[Link] (1 responses)
Ah, actually he isn't doing that at all - the people who attended this conference clearly are *not* the kind of people he was talking about.
However, it is a fact the Indian software industry (if one can call it that, given that one doesn't actually see any Indian products anywhere, and the industry is largely an extension of the American/European software industry) is creating a culture of "micro-managed software development", and does not actually encourage individual contribution or innovation. This has been a complaint voiced by many people who have dealt with developers in India, and is precisely why we are driving FOSS as a way to break this situation.
At the risk of sounding self-congratulatory, let me point you at this slide show:
http://atulchitnis.net/talks/innovate-students.pdf [PDF]
It is something I tag onto the end of every talk I give at colleges and even companies, and should explain things a bit more.
And also have a look at this:
http://dot.kde.org/1134244310/
This is something that is a direct outcome of that "particular conference". This is the first time that we have seen something like this happening in India (a non-corporate initiative), and hopefully it is a sign of things to come.
Posted Dec 11, 2005 13:04 UTC (Sun)
by gnu (guest, #65)
[Link]
A lot of students from India are active in many of the mailing lists related to Free Software, but we fail to see their names once they cease to become students. One of the things that anyone need to have to contribute to Free Software projects (Yeah, I don't like the word "foss" and the "Other word which starts with O") is a drive to contribute to the community. This is necessary and sufficient condition for any participation in the Free Software projects.
I disagree that no innovation is happening in the Indian Software Industry. Again, generalization based on lesser number of data points is as bad as telling a lie.
Posted Dec 13, 2005 1:54 UTC (Tue)
by aigarius (subscriber, #7329)
[Link]
> I thought I was dealing with individual personal traits but this articleFOSS.IN: A report
> in dicates it's a national tendency. Now I know that I can adjust and allow
> for it. Thanks Jon!
> It is sad to see Indians being tagged based on afew thousad FOSS.IN: A report
> people who attended a particular conference.
> culture of "micro-managed software development", and does not actually FOSS.IN: A report
> encourage individual contribution or innovation. This has been a complaint > voiced by many people who have dealt with developers in India, and is
> precisely why we are driving FOSS as a way to break this situation.
If you are still interested in getting some workforce for 4$/hour, turning to students from Easter Europe can be a good way to do that. Contact me at aigarius@debian.org if you are interested.FOSS.IN: A report