Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
Jordan kept pushing the button on innovations. Where is the alternative thinking? In the Linux world, if there is a new hardware, idea, or project, there's always someone who stands up and start working on it. Maybe that person will not complete what he or she started or maybe the result will be of low quality, but at least someone tried to contribute. This doesn't happen in the BSD world."
Posted Nov 26, 2004 8:29 UTC (Fri)
by petegn (guest, #847)
[Link] (7 responses)
i know directly of 11 Linux desktops i do not know of 1 BSD job and i know quite a few people in printing and publishing..
Pete.
Posted Nov 26, 2004 10:53 UTC (Fri)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (6 responses)
If you know nobody running MacOS X in printing and publishing, you don't know anyone in printing and publishing (to a first approximation). The Mac has always had an overwhelming presence there.
(Your failure to grasp this indicates that you didn't even comprehend the first two paragraphs of the article, yet you felt competent to call Jordan Hubbard a liar on the basis of this. Curious.)
Posted Nov 26, 2004 11:38 UTC (Fri)
by ami.ganguli (guest, #9613)
[Link] (3 responses)
While I see a few Macs around too, Linux boxes are popping up all over the place. The other day I noticed that a local library had installed Linux-based Internet kiosks.
I can't think of a single techie where I work who doesn't at least dual boot to Linux (and several are full-time Linux with VMWare for Windows).
I suppose it's possible that there are enough graphic artists in the world to compensate for all this, but I'm not going to accept it as fact without some hard evidence.
Posted Nov 26, 2004 13:02 UTC (Fri)
by hppnq (guest, #14462)
[Link] (1 responses)
Not exactly a shining example of statistical analysis.
What bothers me more is Apple's apparent parasitic approach to BSD development. I don't know how much they've contributed to BSD, but what emerges from the article makes me very appreciative of the Linux community's no-nonsense approach: "You want feature X? Here's the kernel source, knock yourself out."
Posted Nov 26, 2004 15:07 UTC (Fri)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link]
I also find it a bit annoying how some BSD boosters, not just Hubbard, use Apple OS-X to "prove" that BSD is more popular on desktops than Linux. After all, from the point of view of users and developers, OS-X is merely another proprietary Unix variant with a proprietary GUI layer, and therefore in a completely different category from Linux, FreeBSD and other free OS'es.
It is also a quite different fork of BSD in that it sits on top of a microkernel, and therefore it has more trouble benefiting from, or contributing to "mainstream" BSD systems.
Posted Nov 27, 2004 5:44 UTC (Sat)
by gvy (guest, #11981)
[Link]
While Linux users somehow tend to ditch all those dualboots and emulations as annoying and superfluous in a quite short time like months to a year or two. :)
What's more disturbing is that they're actively yelling about *BSD left behind and out in the cold *but* do very little to actually help with it (rather than annoying people). I'm still to ask Ladislav what wording was applied to his inbox to make him add ", BSD" to DistroWatch.com's "Put fun back into computing, use Linux" motto -- still I'm suspective that I've seen that while performing Ukrainian Free Software Conference last fall -- a lot of yelling and one report out of 20 (by the person that somehow didn't yell but rather worked on pre-confiured FreeBSD-based LiveCD).
What a pity IBM people doing another report later mentioned that FreeBSD has indeed lost its chance to become a _platform_ due to non-willingness to collaborate with wider community and fanaticity to do everything in-house by 1337 commandos... and that most BSD folks still don't get it.
*sigh*
Posted Nov 26, 2004 16:25 UTC (Fri)
by petegn (guest, #847)
[Link]
Posted Nov 27, 2004 5:32 UTC (Sat)
by gvy (guest, #11981)
[Link]
OSX isn't BSD. The fact that there's a hacked BSD kernel somewhere down there doesn't change this as operating systems these days are to be judged as higher-level platforms than a bunch of syscalls (on *that* low level it's quite weird with all of its broken non-Unix-like filesystem layout), and so APIs available come into play (be it Cocoa, Qt or whatever).
Having said that, *please* show me a driver or application that was developed for such a lock-in implementation of "UNIX" based on "BSD" and that *is* of any use to other *NIX[-like] systems, be it FreeBSD, Linux or venerable Solaris. Ah, found one? One more please.
Your failure to understand that it _is_ the consequence of ill-smoked BSD license won't fix the fact you can't use potentially your own work without paying to some company, like Apple.
Please get me right, I'm sometimes-MacOS-user since 7.5 and I do like Macs (momentarily switching in the I-am-dumb-user mode as the most natural and relaxed there for me). But waving BSD flag over there is bullshit, and Apple apparently stole Hubbard from the FreeBSD core team (without really compensating it somehow). So better stop blowing that horn altogether, you'll not be so funny and childish then.
Posted Nov 26, 2004 15:51 UTC (Fri)
by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
[Link]
(We do have some non-Apple BSD machines, but they're routers)
The fact that the audio subsystem stuff went by without comment is a bad sign for BSD on the desktop outside of Mac users. Three years ago there was enough interest, and more importantly enough time, to clone ALSA's library APIs on say FreeBSD and put in place the foundation to do the hardware work later. BSD users would have been able to run ALSA software by now, albeit with reduced functionality compared to the same application & hardware under Linux.
But it never happened, and today their practical choice for audio work is between using 3-5 year old software packages and switching to a Linux distro. In part the blame must rest with BSD audio hackers who let core team members say things like "our drivers are as good as, even better than those of ALSA" while ALSA was shipping 16 channel 24-bit pro audio drivers and the best you could expect on a BSD was CD stereo. When someone with decision making power says something laughable like that, you need to make sure everyone knows why you're laughing or they'll take it as tacit acceptance that they were right.
yea for sure just who do they think they are kidding ..Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
This shows the limitations of your personal knowledge rather than anything else.Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
Unlike the parent poster, I do know Mac users and even an OpenBSD user, but I'm also skeptical that there are really more BSD users than Linux users. It's not that Hubbard is a liar, it's just that there's no accurate way to measure Linux desktop use and he naturally hangs out with Mac people.Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
OS X, FreeBSD and BSD, as well as Red Hat and Linux, as well as "users", "sites" and "systems", as well as "systems connected to the internet" and "all installed systems on the planet" are interchanged happily in this article in order to arrive at the conclusion that BSD is the most popular Unix desktop system, and -- what the hell, we're on a roll here -- that BSD is more popular than Linux anyway.
Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
Err... yeah, a bunch of FreeBSD users, one OpenBSD user and one casual NetBSD/Alpha user around (between Linux users here and there) -- but there's a tendency: FreeBS users can't really live without Windows 2000 and are prone to PuTTY and even Outlook.Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
errrrrrr dunno where you been hiding recentley..Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
This shows you're just another BSD guy without any insight deeper than the end of your own nose :-(Inside EuroBSDCon 2004 (O'ReillyNet)
At my place of work there are a lot more Linux desktops than Macs. Maybe 10:1 and it's more like 50:1 with servers, the OS X rack machines are mostly a token effort from someone with budget and an Apple fetish. In fact, system wide we probably have more Suns than Apples.ALSA on BSD