Desktop Linux is Windows piracy aide (Silicon.com)

BTW, I'm writing this with HP laptop -- with a legal and fully licenced copy of WinXP I have never used. I would be happy to give it away to just anyone who's actually willing to touch it.

I find it hard to believe that people who can get linux pcs would not be able to get pcs without an OS installed directly, given that few major distributors offer PCs without windows pre-installed.

As to this one is EASY:

HEY Michael Kannelos JUST TELL YOUR BOSS TO MAKE AN ACTIVACTION MECHANISM, WITH VERY STRONG ENCRIPTATION, SO THAT *ALMOST NO ONE* CAN BREAK... BE IT ON A EMULATOR OR ELSE...

When it was just *BEFORE* the official launch of Windows XP there was already posted from ASIA origin, (sorry dont have links anymore) technical articles how you can copy a certain hash file from one Machine to another and that way illegaly activate the same copy of WinXP through an infinite number of machines... and if that information was available that soon, then *IS FAIR TO ASSUME THAT THAT INFORMATION CAME FROM INSIDE*...

What is no wonder, Piracy is the main mechanism by which Microsoft maintains a firm grasp in the domestic and SOHO markets,... there the TCO is lower than Linux, because there almost nobody pay for Windows or Office anyway...

I don't condone piracy.

However, this report is silent on some related issues which are worth noting.

I've purchased a few PCs for personal use of the last 15 years. I've
built many more of them myself (just buy case, power supply, motherboard,
and a few other components and plug them all together). The PCs I've
purchased have each come with a copy of the Microsoft OS of the day
(MS-DOS or MS Windows). Naturally I used to use MS-DOS (13 years ago,
before Linux existed, and concurrently with DOS/DESQview for a couple
years while Linux was maturing and I was learning to live with it).

My point is that the number of machines sold with an unnecessary copy
MS Windows far exceeds the number of machines sold with Linux. Many
Linux users still want the convenience of purchasing a pre-built system
and want a particular model and manufacturer which is simply not
offered without the unwanted software.

This doesn't justify piracy. People who buy a machine with an unwanted
copy of Windows had other choices (build their own or purchase from
among the extremely limited number of vendors who aren't bound by
exclusive contracts to Microsoft).

It's possible that Microsoft's contracts with the majority of PC
vendors still constitute an illegal monopoly. I personally think that
the DoJ was incompetent in its handling of the previous anti-trust
case and that the "remedies" exacted were and still are a mere slap
on the wrist. Some of the "remedies" actually encourage further
entrenchment -- like "giving" Microsoft software to schools and other
public institutions.

However, that point is moot. It still doesn't justify piracy.

One huge problem with the software business today is the discrepancies
between "licensing" practices and traditional first sale and fair use
doctrines of other media (books in particular).

In a free market with "fair" products the situation would be much
less of an issue. Many of the people who received unwanted copies of
software with their systems would simply resell it and many of the
pirates would by an inexpensive and otherwise unwanted copy. The going
rate in the U.S. for such copies would probably be around $10 to $25
(from what I've seen the vendors that will sell systems sans OS will
only give about a $25 discount -- which says something about the
wholesale value of the product).

Of course this is not a free market and the software in question is not
"fair." There are many versions of it that are locked to a given PC
or model and which can't be transferred to other systems.

Anyway, I'm in no position to offer up real suggestions here. My general
suggestion would be that free software advocates condemn piracy,
encourage the use of "the right tool for the job" (recognizing that its
not always going to be free), educate selected parties about the broader
economics of software and other "intellectual property," and solicit
feedback to find out to woo more of the pirates into the fold of free
software users.

JimD

Notice the tone in the first paragraph: "Linux PCs will be modified to run an illegal copy.." That's a straight Fear statement, implying that adding the Linux bits somehow enables a 'modification' of the PC ( what would that be?? ) making it magically easier to steal Microsoft's IP. Contrast with this substitution: "Dirt-cheap PC's will be modified to run an illegal... " How does the term 'modified' apply here? The addition of Linux to the PC package purchased in no way relates to the end use of the PC, other than cost. It would have been more honest for Gartner to have said, "Pirates are using the cheapest boxes they can find, and more cheap box-pushers are adding a Linux CD to their offerings"

I have seen laptops for about 1500 Euro with WinXP that are around 1700 Euro if you want it preloaded with Linux...

How's that for a Windows piracy aide?

That is about right .
I am living in Thailand, one of those countries discussed so often.
I am in contact with this socalled pirated world regulary.
Regulary means actually, daily if I want, weekly if I want.
Here you can buy PCs preloaded with windows, legal or illegal , your choice.
Here you can buy PCs with nothing on, No problem at all. Just ask.
first about windows.
--------------------
They use windows because that is what they know, not because it is good.
If they have a problem, they ask the neighbour A or neighbour B.
Don't ask about linux, the neigbour doesn't know, so the avarage user (not knowledgable user )doesn't want linux.
Microsoft is going to release a starter pack !!!!!!!.
Don't waste your time discussing this. Here is what the Thai's say about it.
Why the heck should we spend $40 on a crippled version of winXP, if we can get a full version for $4 ?
Does Microsoft think we are stupid or crazy ?? ( their exact wordsw )
I have asked about 30 people, all the same reaction.
And don't worry about the Law here !!
I can tell more, but this post will get to long.

About Linux
-----------
Gartner says that 80%....bla bla...
Yes, that is true, but do you know why ????
NOw I am talking about the guys who actually know a thing or two about comnputers.
If you get a linux preloaded pc, they strip linux, then they load WinXP on it, and then they install linux again, because you can not install windows after linux.
You install linux after you have installed windows.
That is why 80% has to be stripped from the PC
I am moving around in schools, have may connections at universities ( all students ), and about 50 % has linux installed.
They are not actively using it, as they know their way better in windows, but every one I met so far, says they will one day.
Also, there was very little linux documentation in Thai, but things are changing rapidly.
Books are filling the shelves in a rapid pace.

OK, I am not a writer , but hope that this is a little clear.
Gartner had it right with the number 80, but the end result is 40, since they load it again.
So, gartner statistics are what they always have been, sensational, but useless.

And Windows will be replaced with pirated copy or Windows - what's the difference ?

Of course Linux will be often replaced with Windows but Windows is sometimes replaced with Linux as well. It's all relevant only for notebook market anyway: it's not a problem to buy desktop PC without any OS here and then you can install anything you want there.

So yes, most copies of Windows are illegal here but "PCs sold as PCs with Linux then converted to Windows" is such a small percentage of PCs overral that it does not really even worth mention. Even if it's 80% of "PCs sold with Linux" - if you need Linux you'll install it yourself since supplier does not have tech support for Linux anyway even if Linux installation is an option.

Why anyone will replace legal copy of Windows with illegal copy ? Simple: if you'll replace Russian Windows Home edition with English Windows Professional Corporate edition + Russian MUI you have no problems with updates (patches are month or two late for Russian version), activation (corporate edition does not need it!) and so on.

Why Windows is so popular here ? Simple: it's cheaper then Linux. For the same $10 you can buy ASPLinux, ALTLinux, Debian, RedHat, or Windows. But it's be only ASPLinux, ALTLinux, Debian or RedHat while "windows disk" will include the following (typical "windows disk" contents):
1. Windows 95 OSR2 + USB Update OSR2.1 (russian & english)
2. Windows 98 SE (russian & english)
3. Windows ME (russian & english)
4. Windows NT 4.0 SP6a Workstation (russian & english)
5. Windows NT 4.0 Server (english)
6. Windows 2000 SP4 Professional (russian & english)
7. Windows 2000 SP4 Server (russian & english)
8. Windows XP SP2 Professional (russian & english)
9. Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition (english)
10. Norton SystemWorks 2004

If you'll try to find software for Linux - yet again it's harder then with software for Linux. And games are non-existant.

So 80% conversion looks like correct approximation: only geeks like me will choose Linux over Linux when alternative is so cheap. What exactly will be installed on PC in the end has almost no relevancy to what was installed initially and Windows is more popular (way more applications).

"We in the press find recalls and corrections a big help. We get a hell of a lot of junk that we assume is dull and therefore throw away without reading, often without even noticing, but the shrill words RECALL!!" or "CORRECTION!!!!" signify to us that there is something somebody has decided they'd rather not have said, or that they'd rather we didn't read. We dive straight into the trash, and although frequently the original remains very dull indeed and is immediately retrashed, sometimes it isn't.

We're not sure about this week's effort on behalf of Gartner, because we didn't get it in the first place and it may be that, bless 'em, they've drawn our attention to something they never actually distributed.* Not directly, anyway. The unreleased/dereleased release was headed: "Linux has a fight on its hands in emerging PC markets says Gartner," and we can track it back as far as this report here, which you'll note Gartner wants a cool $795 for the full text of."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/29/linux_windows_pir...

Let's not drink our own kool-aid. Sometimes there are bad things to say about our side too, and sometimes they are true even if the analyst redacts their report, and it's better to acknowledge the truth than to exercise knee-jerk naysaying.

It is absolutely true that many PCs sold with Linux, especially in the third world, have received a bootleg copy of Windows after sale. I first found out about this while working for HP, which sold a Linux PC in China all the way back in 2000. They had lowered the cost of everything in the PC but the operating system, and then they lowered that, too. But HP never publicized outside of China that they were selling a Linux PC way back then, because they knew well that many users were loading bootleg Windows on the computer after the sale. It was a very cynical play. But China really took up Linux, which wasn't in the plan. So, this "buy Linux, run Windows" is not the case so much any longer.

Also, this sort of cynical play is not going on in other parts of the world where the $14 price for the initial Windows load doesn't matter as much. Did you really think that you were paying the retail price for Windows in new PCs? And that those "Windows refund" efforts were going to win you back one or two hundred bucks per PC? That initial load is something that Microsoft wants there to get you addicted, and they can afford to give it away. No doubt the reduced-capability "home" Windows loads we are finding in some PCs these days are there for the same purpose as Linux in China was playing in 2000. Microsoft can afford to put that software on the PC for nothing or even pay the manufacturer to put it there, as long as the user purchases one upgrade in the PC lifetime.

But yes, at one time Linux was a component in what was predominantly a Windows bootleg play. And it might still be going on in some places.

Bruce

But I have built all the many computers in my various houses since 1992 from parts, so I haven't yet had to, but---be warned---my pirate flag is flying, my patch is over the eye, and I am all ready for the "rape and pillage" that "piracy" entails!

My pirate ship will come out of my Trojan horse at night and will cause the destruction of all that is good in Troy!---and let that be a warning to yeh.

Okay, I'm kidding. Pirates get up to serious stuff. Ask anyone who regularly sails the Straits of Malacca. Please don't equate copying software with piracy. Piracy often involves death, destruction and rape. These things are rarely a consequence of making a copy of a CD.