Perfection is the enemy of good

Posted Oct 15, 2025 17:24 UTC (Wed) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877)
In reply to: Perfection is the enemy of good by farnz
Parent article: The FSF's Librephone project

Is this confirmed somewhere? Has this been raised with the FSF?

Perfection is the enemy of good

Posted Oct 15, 2025 17:30 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (4 responses)

I've raised it with the FSF; they've said that it's OK, because I had to open the cases to change the firmware, and anything where you need to open the case does not count.

Perfection is the enemy of good

Posted Oct 15, 2025 17:46 UTC (Wed) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link] (3 responses)

The reason is that the law governing rights and liabilities for firmware and hardware are different.

If hardware vendors were willing to distribute firmware with the same right and accept the same liability as for hardware, the FSF position would be different.

As it stands, there is a considerable advantage for a vendor to use the firmware terms, since they can disclaim all warranties and limit users rights.

Perfection is the enemy of good

Posted Oct 15, 2025 17:57 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (2 responses)

I don't see how what you're saying follows from what I'm saying.

The FSF says it's fine for a firmware to be vendor-replaceable proprietary firmware, as long as you need to open the case of the device to change the firmware.

I don't see how the difference between "rights and liabilities" for hardware and firmware matters here - in both cases, we're talking about changing the firmware. It's just that the FSF tells me that it's a device is fine, per RYF rules, if replacing the firmware needs a conductive screwdriver, but not if replacing the firmware would need me to toggle a switch on the case.

And I don't see how the need for a conductive screwdriver (or a non-conductive one and a piece of wire) makes a material difference here.

Perfection is the enemy of good

Posted Oct 15, 2025 18:24 UTC (Wed) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link] (1 responses)

> The FSF says it's fine for a firmware to be vendor-replaceable proprietary firmware, as long as you need to open the case of the device to change the firmware.

Because in this case, the firmware count as hardware as far the law and regulation are concerned.

Perfection is the enemy of good

Posted Oct 15, 2025 18:26 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

Not according to lawyers I've spoken to - either the firmware is not replaceable at all, in which case it's hardware, or it's replaceable by a service team, in which case it's firmware.

There is no case where firmware gets treated specially just because you need a common household tool to change the firmware - that's the same, as far as the lawyers I've spoken to, as firmware that's soft-loaded by a software tool.