That's right, Linus decides.

Posted Aug 14, 2025 1:59 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
In reply to: That's right, Linus decides. by koverstreet
Parent article: Kernel prepatch 6.17-rc1

> Why'd you put up with it?

I didn't. I left and did something else.

> Now hang on, which behavior are you referring to?

I will not work with you. I will not work on any project that you're leading. This is *purely* as a result of reading your writings here and on LKML. I have no stake in the technical issues whatsoever. In reading your posts I see you reacting similarly to both cases where, yes, the other party is going beyond what I consider reasonable behaviour, but also where people have gone out of their way to provide you with support and advice. And maybe this wouldn't be the case if the level of tolerated toxicity in the kernel was more reasonable, and you'd have got along with everyone. But that's not where we are, that's not what happened, and now you just appear to be just as much of an asshole as Linus (if not more) except it's far easier to just ignore you because I don't need to deal with you if I want to get something upstream. And if you're unwilling to accept that there may be truth in that then you're *definitely* more of an asshole than Linus is, because at his worst he did step back and take some time to work on his interpersonal interactions and came back better (if still not great).

Seriously. Consider whether every single person who's complained about you is wrong, or whether there's any possibility that you could be a factor in this.

That's right, Linus decides.

Posted Aug 14, 2025 4:14 UTC (Thu) by koverstreet (✭ supporter ✭, #4296) [Link] (2 responses)

That's a shame, because I don't think I'd mind working with you, even if you seem a bit hotheaded at the moment :)

But if I may unpack this a bit?

You're coming in with some really strong opinions about someone you've never worked with, taking the time to post on a public forum that I need therapy...

Look, the kernel is a high pressure, high stakes environment, it's a bit of a pressure, and we're coders - a group not exactly known for high emotional intelligence.

Don't you think that this might produce a lot of overreactions, and some rushing to superficial judgements?

I try not to judge people based only on what I hear from others... I try to keep an open mind. And I try not to keep old rivalries and feuds alive; it helps to remember that people may have been having a bad day in that one interaction you saw, or they may legitimately be doing a lot (possibly a lot of good) and under some stress - reactions get short in situations like that.

It helps not to make blanket statements and judgements about people. Look, I don't even consider Linus an asshole... control freak with some toxic behavior sure, but for me to judge anyone too harshly for that would be the pot calling the kettle black. I've also had plenty of moments where I genuinely enjoyed working with him, he has a lot of qualities I respect, and I try to keep that stuff in mind even when tensions have gotten waaaay too high and I need a break. It helps.

We've all had our moments, we're all (hopefully) learning and getting better. I know I've had plenty of moments of realization along the lines of "oh, I took that way too far - I need to think about how to approach that better next time", and I suspect you have too.

Such is life. Sometimes we all just need to chill out.

Experience and theory

Posted Aug 15, 2025 13:04 UTC (Fri) by ntcarruth (guest, #178852) [Link] (1 responses)

> And I try not to keep old rivalries and feuds alive; it helps to remember that people may have been having a bad day in that one interaction you saw, or they may legitimately be doing a lot (possibly a lot of good) and under some stress - reactions get short in situations like that.

I’m very much an outsider here, but wanted to make the following observation:

I admire Kent for trying to not hold grudges; the world would be a better place if more people were like that. Paradoxically, though, from some comments I’ve read here and on LKML, I wonder whether an attitude like that in the quote above, sufficiently extrapolated, could result in interactions like some people complain (fairly or unfairly) about having had with Kent? More specifically, from my own personal experience, I am inclined to believe the following:

Assuming that someone who swears at me is simply having a bad day is almost always a good thing.

Assuming that someone who tells me I’m wrong, even if they can’t explain why other than reference nebulous “experience”, is simply having a bad day, is generally a bad thing.

At any rate, I have certainly made the latter mistake. Experience, in my experience (excuse the repetition), almost always trumps theory, at least when the context surrounding the experience is applicable.

At any rate, from Kent’s comments elsewhere, he has more than one option for keeping bcachefs alive in or out of the kernel. Similar to what another commentator said below, Kent, keep up the good work, we all need better technology!

Experience and theory

Posted Aug 15, 2025 18:05 UTC (Fri) by koverstreet (✭ supporter ✭, #4296) [Link]

I've keeping a fairly low profile on LKML for the past year, what's going on now isn't coming from me, it's a bit nutso.