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Covert web-to-app tracking via localhost on Android

The "Local Mess" GitHub repository is dedicated to the disclosure of an Android tracking exploit used by (at least) Meta and Yandex.

While there are subtle differences in the way Meta and Yandex bridge web and mobile contexts and identifiers, both of them essentially misuse the unvetted access to localhost sockets. The Android OS allows any installed app with the INTERNET permission to open a listening socket on the loopback interface (127.0.0.1). Browsers running on the same device also access this interface without user consent or platform mediation. This allows JavaScript embedded on web pages to communicate with native Android apps and share identifiers and browsing habits, bridging ephemeral web identifiers to long-lived mobile app IDs using standard Web APIs.

This backdoor, the use of which has evidently stopped since its disclosure, allow tracking of users across sites regardless of cookie policies or use of incognito browser modes.


to post comments

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 13:31 UTC (Wed) by fraetor (subscriber, #161147) [Link] (23 responses)

This is obviously an undesirable exploit, but there are many times that accessing a local service is useful. Is there a way to allow communication with a local service be done without making this exploit, or similar ones, possible?

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 13:36 UTC (Wed) by koverstreet (✭ supporter ✭, #4296) [Link] (17 responses)

It just needs to require explicit user permission, same as accessing your webcam.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 13:41 UTC (Wed) by xav (guest, #18536) [Link] (15 responses)

Sure, but no regular user would be able to understand that concept.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 15:02 UTC (Wed) by ms (subscriber, #41272) [Link]

Maybe the browser should only be able to connect to localhost if the whole phone is in developer mode. No normal user is going to accidentally do that, and connections to localhost are useful if you're doing app development or similar.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 16:51 UTC (Wed) by koverstreet (✭ supporter ✭, #4296) [Link] (4 responses)

Part of our job sometimes is to explain and educate. I'm sure someone could come up with a prompt that a lot of people would understand - and technical literacy does increase over time, and privacy is an issue that lots of uses care about.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 12, 2025 6:44 UTC (Thu) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

Something like "Do you allow X to communicate with apps/pages on your phone? should do. I don't think "localhost" and "socket" are needed much here. In fact, you'd want this same permission to apply outside TCP/IP too.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 13, 2025 6:54 UTC (Fri) by oldtomas (guest, #72579) [Link]

This is very important.

Education should not just focus on (individual) users [1], but also on society in general. Elsewhere in the commentary there are good contributions as to how lawmakers shouldn't let those bad actors get away with it: but then, lawmakers should understand what's at stake!

I see that as a corollary of the old saw "you can't solve social problems by technological means".

[1] But this part is essential, too!

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 13, 2025 20:37 UTC (Fri) by bmur (guest, #52954) [Link]

It's much simpler than that.

All the message needs to say is:

"Allow this permission to continue using Facebook."

Everyone: *shrug* Allow.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 14, 2025 10:37 UTC (Sat) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> and technical literacy does increase over time,

Are you sure?

Ime literacy generally (and technical is included) goes down over time WITHIN A COHORT.

That's why IQ tests don't measure "the general populace", rather they measure the general populace against their own age group. Different age groups score differently, but individuals tend to score consistently against their peers.

Cheers,
Wol

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 18:14 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (8 responses)

Can't Android know what app/activity is on the other end of that socket and make a nice "Do you want $BROWSER to be able to interact with the $INVASIVE_AD_TROJAN app?" permission rather than mentioning anything like "localhost" or a random port number?

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 21:18 UTC (Wed) by fraetor (subscriber, #161147) [Link] (7 responses)

I can't remember where I saw it, but "a user shouldn't be able to opt-in to insecurity."

In the case of this specific proposal, perhaps you don't mind facebook.com in your browser talking to the Facebook app, but would for other origins.

Various cross-site request forgery prevention mechanism exist to prevent a random site from affecting another site, but in this case the localhost server wants to be affected, which means you would have to prevent the entire request.

A static permission on the app sounds like a sensible step, as it would allow app store review to catch malicious code while still allowing origins to opt-in.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 12, 2025 5:29 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

Sure, setting up the socket should *also* have a permission. But just because the socket is up doesn't mean I want any app/website to communicate with it at any time.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 15, 2025 16:26 UTC (Sun) by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595) [Link] (5 responses)

Couldn't this be a browser-level permission given to Web sites, rather than an OS-level one given to the browser?

> Do you want to allow facebook.com/legit-site-with-ads.com/sketchy-site.com to connect to the Facebook app on your phone? Tap "Deny" unless there is a clear reason that you understand why this is needed, because this can enable trackers to break privacy protections and see your activity across the Internet.

> [Protect my privacy: *Deny*]
> [I understand the risk; *Allow*]

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 15, 2025 16:47 UTC (Sun) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (4 responses)

How is the browser supposed to know what app is behind `localhost:12345`?

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 15, 2025 17:40 UTC (Sun) by notriddle (subscriber, #130608) [Link] (2 responses)

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 15, 2025 18:44 UTC (Sun) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

Sure…but is that reliable on Android?

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 15, 2025 19:11 UTC (Sun) by johill (subscriber, #25196) [Link]

IIRC each app install gets its own UID, so all it needs to identify is the UID of the listening socket. Should be really simple to do especially on a tightly controlled system like Android.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 16, 2025 8:46 UTC (Mon) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

The system as a whole knows (if nothing else, the kernel knows the process that's got the socket open), and thus Android could provide an API that maps from local socket to Android application that has the socket open.

If I were implementing this, I'd implement two things:

  1. An API that takes a struct sockaddr_t, and tells you the listener's identity - either a local identifier, or "not a loopback socket/pipe".
  2. An API that takes an fd, and tells you either the listener's identity, or "not a loopback socket/pipe".

With this in place, API 1 lets the browser prompt you before you connect. API 2 lets the browser drop the connection and warn the user that the applications identified by API 1 and API 2 are potentially malicious before transferring data, thus deterring "clever" ideas around transferring a socket between applications.

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 17:44 UTC (Wed) by notriddle (subscriber, #130608) [Link]

Warning fatigue is already one of the web's most severe misfeatures.

And, in this case, it doesn't seem necessary. Instead of having the website ask permission to talk to the app, the app should ask permission to provide services to websites. That makes it a lot easier to build the feature in a fine-grained, legible way, because the storefront can refuse to ship an app if it breaks when the user says "No", can allow an app to expose services only to certain top-level origins (and make the warning a lot more obnoxious if an app wants to provide a service to every domain on the web), and can track historical changes to the policy for all distributed versions of the app (no gaslighting people by doing the attack on a random 1% of the population).

That's already how it works if an app wants to replace a website wholesale[^1]. They should just extend it to do the same thing with apps that want to provide services to a website without replacing it.

[^1]: https://developer.android.com/training/app-links

How to do local services safely

Posted Jun 11, 2025 14:32 UTC (Wed) by DemiMarie (subscriber, #164188) [Link]

This should be done via an embedded webview.

Crossing security domains

Posted Jun 11, 2025 15:39 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (3 responses)

The underlying problem here is that you're silently crossing security domains. You think you're accessing https://news-site.example.com/, but you're actually accessing both https://news-site.example.com/ and something on localhost (in the case of Yandex, a HTTPS listener, in the case of Meta, a STUN listener).

I'd therefore guess that you could restrict this sort of exploit without completely prohibiting access to local services in a similar way to the way that you can't use file:/// URLs in a document served over HTTPS. You'd have rules that say things like "if you fetched the top-level document over loopback, then you can also connect to services over loopback. Otherwise, traffic over loopback interfaces is blocked"; then, if I set up the DNS label my-service.example.com to point to a loopback address, and I have my app listen to loopback, you can go to https://my-service.example.com/ and have access to loopback services, but if you instead navigated to https://new-customer.example.com/ (connecting over the network to my webserver), you'd have no access to loopback services, even if you accessed them via the name my-service.example.com.

This would let a legitimate app serve up a web page locally that you could use to access loopback services, but would prohibit me from doing so from a remote site; I'd have to set up a local proxy, and have the browser UI show that you're accessing something like https://my-service.example.com:12345/proxy/new-customer.example.com/site/etc

You're still not fully protected, but it at least stops malicious actors doing this stealthily.

Crossing security domains

Posted Jun 12, 2025 0:42 UTC (Thu) by wahern (subscriber, #37304) [Link] (2 responses)

Crossing security domains

Posted Jun 12, 2025 8:50 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (1 responses)

That proposal does, unfortunately, run into the "prompt for insecurity" problem, which means that it doesn't fully block the described exploit - not least because sites using the exploit could socially engineer their way to local network access.

It's a distinct improvement, however.

Crossing security domains

Posted Jun 12, 2025 10:12 UTC (Thu) by Funcan (subscriber, #44209) [Link]

Any prompt stops mass attacks of this because at least some of the people promoted will be technically skilled enough to be suspicious and follow up

Bloody apps

Posted Jun 11, 2025 22:49 UTC (Wed) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644) [Link]

Just yet one more example, amongst dozens, of apps doing sneaky shit behind the backs of users and app store maintainers. And people wonder why I don't want to install their gorram app.

Make a decent website.

Not just an Android vulnerability? Also, related to 0.0.0.0 Day?

Posted Jun 12, 2025 3:51 UTC (Thu) by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595) [Link] (3 responses)

This doesn't seem to just be an Android vulnerability; wouldn't the same exploit concept work on any OS that allows application software to listen on ports?

Also, this seems to be somewhat related to the 0.0.0.0 Day [1] vulnerability affecting browsers on Mac and Linux? The difference is that with Local Mess, the localhost listener is part of the exploit, whereas with 0.0.0.0 Day, it is the target being exploited, but both involve connections to local ports.

I believe my ZeroTest vulnerability checker [2] for 0.0.0.0 Day should also detect listeners intended to exploit Local Mess (since it is essentially a port scanner), and installing uBlock Origin or Stop PNA [3], an extension written to protect against 0.0.0.0 Day, should protect against Local Mess as well.

Of course, these only work on mobile browsers that support extensions; Firefox is the only one that I know of that does. uBlock Origin, as a recommended extension, can be easily installed in the default configuration; Stop PNA must be sideloaded [4], which is somewhat harder.

[1] https://www.oligo.security/blog/0-0-0-0-day-exploiting-lo...
[2] http://zerotest.kj7rrv.com/
[3] https://codeberg.org/gs/stop-pna
[4] https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/18/firefox-nightly-for-and...

Not just an Android vulnerability? Also, related to 0.0.0.0 Day?

Posted Jun 12, 2025 3:55 UTC (Thu) by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595) [Link]

I just read this on the Local Mess site, which answers my first question:

> Q: Does this only affect Android users? What about iOS or other platforms?

> A: We have only obtained empirical evidence of this web-to-native ID bridging Meta and Yandex web scripts, which exclusively targeted mobile Android users. No evidence of abuse has been observed in iOS browsers and apps that we tested. That said, similar data sharing between iOS browsers and native apps is technically possible. iOS browsers, which are all based on WebKit, allow developers to programmatically establish localhost connections and apps can listen on local ports. It is possible that technical and policy restrictions for running native apps in the background may explain why iOS users were not targeted by these trackers. We note, however, that our iOS analysis is still preliminary and this behavior might have also violated PlayStore policies. Beyond mobile platforms, web-to-native ID bridging could also pose a threat on desktop OSes and smart TV platforms, but we have not yet investigated these platforms.

Not just an Android vulnerability? Also, related to 0.0.0.0 Day?

Posted Jun 12, 2025 9:52 UTC (Thu) by grawity (subscriber, #80596) [Link] (1 responses)

> This doesn't seem to just be an Android vulnerability; wouldn't the same exploit concept work on any OS that allows application software to listen on ports?

As I understand it – it would, but... most desktop platforms don't have that kind of application software installed (nor is such software *available* at all, when it comes to the usual suspects – when was the last time a "Facebook" desktop app existed for Windows? probably in Win8 UWP era?), unlike mobile platforms where having such software is "normal" and commonplace.

> Also, this seems to be somewhat related to the 0.0.0.0 Day

"the 0.0.0.0 Day"? ...I'm sorry, but that sounds like such a grandiose name for what seems like a very regular vulnerability. It definitely beats "Meltdown" by a mile. What will come next? "git checkout master of Disaster"? "Ultra LaserJet"? "Segfault of Doctor Doom"?

Not just an Android vulnerability? Also, related to 0.0.0.0 Day?

Posted Jun 12, 2025 11:48 UTC (Thu) by rschroev (subscriber, #4164) [Link]

> when was the last time a "Facebook" desktop app existed for Windows

WhatsApp (which is also Meta) has an app. It's supposed goal is to enable/improve calls and screen sharing on your desktop, but it wouldn't totally surprise me to learn they also use it for exploits like this.

Your browser lets remote code send packets to localhost???!

Posted Jun 12, 2025 9:49 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (2 responses)

WTF? You can visit whatever random web site on the internet, and your browser will allow their code to make connections to localhost ports?

WTF? How is this not a clear cross-site exploit? How is this allowed?!

Your browser lets remote code send packets to localhost???!

Posted Jun 12, 2025 11:35 UTC (Thu) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link] (1 responses)

I think cross-site exploits (XSS, CSRF, etc) are about one site exploiting another site, and that's not what's happening here. Both sites/applications are cooperating; neither is being used in a way that its developer did not intend. There are plenty of intentionally-supported ways to opt in to cross-site communication - CORS, non-idempotent GET, WebSockets, etc - and there's nothing inherently wrong with using them, even when one side is running on localhost.

The problem here is that browsers and OSes try to implement privacy protection with sandboxing etc, with the policy that apps are allowed to persistently identify users but web sites aren't, and Meta and Yandex set up covert channels between their apps and web sites to violate that policy.

Protections like https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/local-network-a... are not intended for this case (though they might fix it anyway, as a side effect): they're trying to e.g. prevent random web pages from accessing http://192.168.0.1/router.cgi?firewall=off in case the router manufacturer mistakenly assumes that any HTTP request from the local network must be from a trusted user and does not perform appropriate authentication.

Chrome's previous proposal (PNA) allowed local services to opt in to promptless cross-site requests (via the CORS pre-flight request), which wouldn't have blocked this covert channel since the Meta/Yandex apps could have just opted in. They say the main reason they dropped that in the new proposal is that it's much easier to add a permission prompt to one browser than to add the opt-in code to the many local services that currently rely on cross-site requests for legitimate purposes; it was for practicality and compatibility, not for improved security or privacy.

Your browser lets remote code send packets to localhost???!

Posted Jun 12, 2025 12:09 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Sure, it's not technically XSS... But still, in what sane universe do browsers allow code from remote web hosts to make network API calls to localhost services?

How... I honestly thought this was something browsers simply did not allow. How..

Not all fixes need to be technical

Posted Jun 12, 2025 10:17 UTC (Thu) by Funcan (subscriber, #44209) [Link] (2 responses)

While we should definitely consider technical fixes here, the European data protection folks fining every company serving such a cookie, and hitting meta and yandex with maximum fines (double digit percent of global revenue) will have much more effect.

Alter the risk-to-reward of serving advertising cookies and fewer sites will be happy serving up literally hundreds in every site visit

Not all fixes need to be technical

Posted Jun 12, 2025 10:55 UTC (Thu) by Lyco (subscriber, #133637) [Link] (1 responses)

Exactly.

I am quite disappointed in the discussion here: several people suggest "fixes" like asking the user if application should be allowed to communicate, as if this is something that users are (or should be) able to decide, shifting the responsibility to the victims. We have enough mental issues in the world, let's not make paranoia mandatory to keep basic human rights.

Blaming users is completely backwards: it's Meta and Yandex who decided to spy on users to enrich themselves, and they should bear the responsibility instead. Put large fine on Meta and Yandex - large enough to erase all gains from this conduct - and send the executives responsible into a jail.

Not all fixes need to be technical

Posted Jun 12, 2025 11:43 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Completely agreed. Meta should face some huge fines. Not some piddly little tens of millions either - that's just pocket fluff to Meta.

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 12, 2025 14:49 UTC (Thu) by kolAflash (subscriber, #168136) [Link] (7 responses)

Hi :-)

I've actually started looking into the whole surrounding topic about a year before the current discussion came up. Simply because I realized, that developers usually assume opening TCP ports on locahost (127.0.0.1/8, ::1/128) and in local networks (192.168.0.0, 169.254.0.0/16, fe80::/64 and all the others) is OK without any security or just some obfuscation. For localhost that would theoretically be even true, if there wouldn't be for web sites which we now a days open not just in browsers, but in all kinds of applications. Just think of a chat app which accesses HTTP addresses from messages to generate previews. And JavaScript code, as well as embedded resource HTTP URLs (e.g. images) can open TCP connections to arbitrary IP addresses.

So to all developers + system admins (including myself 2 years ago):
localhost and your local network is absolutely NOT safe!

.

At least the Chrome developers seem to think about this for some time.
2021-08-26: https://developer.chrome.com/blog/private-network-access-...
2025-06-09: https://developer.chrome.com/blog/local-network-access?hl=en
The second link includes a screen shot of the dialogue you'll get when you enable this setting in the upcoming Chrome-138.
chrome://flags/#local-network-access-check
Some more Chromium bits about this: https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40083783

Firefox seems to have a whole list of tickets about this since decades! And now it seems they might actually start to work on it. So don't say anyone warned about this before ;-)
central ticket: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1481298

Some of my additional notes.
What the standard says:
https://wicg.github.io/private-network-access/
https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/143
Try out things yourself:
http://samy.pl/webscan/
https://github.com/samyk/webscan

.

But even beside actual web browsers we have all kinds of different applications running dynamically loaded, arbitrary JavaScript code from the Internet all the time and allowing it to make arbitrary HTTP connection. Do email clients run JavaScript code embedded in mails? At least email load embedded HTTP resources in mails, which might access local network resources. Just think of Thunderbird, MS-Outlook, Apple Mail and the huge list of service provider specific Android+iOS mail clients out there, supporting HTML+HTTP content.
But there's a huge bunch of other software out there, allowing HTML and maybe even JavaScript code just downloaded from the Internet to make local HTTP connections. Think of the web view in the Steam client. Or Electron based messaging apps.

Bye the way, I found this nice overview of the currently discussed problems: https://localmess.github.io/

So since knowing that, I keep much more of an eye on closing all unneeded (localhost) TCP ports on my system. I even closed the CUPS port 631, even I find the CUPS web UI quite helpful. Instead I try to use UNIX sockets instead where possible. You can even forward UNIX sockets via ssh and for example VNC software usually also supports them.
Related: https://github.com/distcc/distcc/discussions/517
Unfortunately OpenSSH in particular, usually praised for it's security, unfortunately does -X forwarding via TCP instead of using UNIX sockets. I've put a workaround here, on how to forward X11 via UNIX socket instead.
https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3695

.

As a workaround, I currently run my desktop Firefox using this command:

setsid --fork systemd-run --user --scope --slice=no_localhost_net firefox; sudo bash -c "for dst in 127.0.0.1/8 0.0.0.0/32; do /usr/sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --destination \$dst -m cgroup --path 'user.slice/user-${UID}.slice/user@${UID}.service/no_localhost_net.slice' -j REJECT; done"; sudo bash -c "for dst in ::1/128 ::/128; do /usr/sbin/ip6tables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --destination \$dst -m cgroup --path "user.slice/user-${UID}.slice/user@${UID}.service/no_localhost_net.slice" -j REJECT; done";

Next step will probably be, to reverse this and allow localhost + local network access only to white listed applications.

So in the end web browsers can't probably fix this for good. Instead operating systems must consider listening on localhost a privileged operation. And programs having this privilege must fulfil the full security responsibilities which come with that. If you don't want that, use UNIX sockets or any other non-network IPC mechanism.

... I'll just walk over to my balcony and do some gardening.

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 13, 2025 2:29 UTC (Fri) by xecycle (subscriber, #140261) [Link]

> setsid --fork systemd-run --user --scope --slice=no_localhost_net firefox; sudo bash -c "for dst in 127.0.0.1/8 0.0.0.0/32; do /usr/sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --destination \$dst -m cgroup --path 'user.slice/user-${UID}.slice/user@${UID}.service/no_localhost_net.slice' -j REJECT; done"; sudo bash -c "for dst in ::1/128 ::/128; do /usr/sbin/ip6tables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --destination \$dst -m cgroup --path "user.slice/user-${UID}.slice/user@${UID}.service/no_localhost_net.slice" -j REJECT; done";

Ugh... Well, some months ago I checked whether I can tell nft to filter loopback traffic by the two cgroups of the two participating sockets, but failed. Resorting to sudo is... a risk I don't want to take. Instead you can place it into a dedicated slice, and tell nft to filter on that cgroup.

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 13, 2025 8:17 UTC (Fri) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link] (5 responses)

> developers usually assume opening TCP ports on locahost (127.0.0.1/8, ::1/128) and in local networks (192.168.0.0, 169.254.0.0/16, fe80::/64 and all the others) is OK without any security or just some obfuscation

That‘s true on an operating system you control. You can deploy all sorts of tools to identify and reel in malware.

The problem here is that localhost belongs to the mobile OS, and the mobile OS is not controlled by you but by Google, Apple, or the device maker, and all those entities are engaging in a cat and mouse game with the legislator to pull as much info on you as possible to feed you scams and propaganda.

I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that targeted advertising in any form is evil and should be legislated away. It makes it all too easy to identify marks and slowly overwhelm their common sense with a barrage of ads, propaganda, and echo chamber effects (and conversely fly under the radar of society as a whole by feeding extreme content to select audiences that won’t condemn them). It enables police states. We are seeing the results of allowing this system today (both in the politics being pushed, and who pretends to the role of the puppet master today; see Palantir and Peter Thiel).

I don’t like a advertising as a whole but at least the lack of targeting in last century’s TV adverts prevented the promotion of “let’s kill you neighbour or classmate” messaging (because the neighbour or classmate would also see the same ads).

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 13, 2025 10:27 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

> I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that targeted advertising in any form is evil and should be legislated away.

I've always hated targeted advertising. Not least because it's nearly always "close but no cigar". If I buy birthday presents for my nieces and grand-kids, I don't want to be pestered to buy more. Especially when the advertising is clueless to the fact that kids grow up :-)

Likewise, if I buy Nikon camera gear, the resulting barrage of Canon adverts is extremely annoying. Etc etc.

I NEVER give permission for targeted advertising.

The other big concern of course is all the medical stuff. Less so over here, as so much is regulated, but the sheer LACK of science in the practice of medicine is appalling. So much stuff is driven by "a new study has proved ..." loudly promoted by journalist and advertising hacks who don't have any real understanding of what they're doing. The diet industry is a major case in point ...

Cheers,
Wol

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 13, 2025 13:07 UTC (Fri) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> Not least because it's nearly always "close but no cigar". If I buy birthday presents for my nieces and grand-kids, I don't want to be pestered to buy more.

....Or when I buy a new faucet or showerhead, why exactly would ads trying to get me to buy *more* faucets be relevant? Am I supposed to be collecting them as an new-in-box "investment"?

(I'd say "let them waste their money" but it all comes out of their customers' pockets eventually..)

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 13, 2025 18:42 UTC (Fri) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

This video goes through what it looks like if those things actually worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n36R8xlhe1U

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 16, 2025 7:39 UTC (Mon) by taladar (subscriber, #68407) [Link] (1 responses)

On the other hand advertising in the last century was responsible for a lot of other problems in our society.

Basically you can blame a lot of drug use (including alcohol and tobacco and prescription drugs) on advertising, a lot of health problems from bad diets, climate change from advertising of fossil fuel, automotive, aviation and travel industries,...

And that is not even accounting for the horrors inflicted upon humanity by political advertising (usually referred to as propaganda when seen in a negative light).

But true, the targeted aspect adds things like the building of a world-wide surveillance capability that surpasses most intelligence agency's wet dreams.

browser development, bigger problem, workarounds

Posted Jun 16, 2025 8:20 UTC (Mon) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

It’s not just intelligence (as in passive information collection). Targeted advertising waits for the moment one of your activity patterns is symptomatic of a vulnerability to conversion, and then feeds you the exact garbage that enabled this conversion in others. Given no one is superhuman without any moment of weakness it will eventually succeed.

Traditional advertising relied on brute force and brute force is obvious enough society as a whole can decide if the messaging is acceptable or not.


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